1. Better than content nobody asked for.
2. Balance isn't happening with charms, extenders and such in the game so why not.
At this point ANY significant content is good.
1. Better than content nobody asked for.
2. Balance isn't happening with charms, extenders and such in the game so why not.
At this point ANY significant content is good.
Not sure why you continue to argue at this point..
Even if you two came to an agreement that the whole community backs up, they would instead implement something nobody asked for.
You're both right. You're just looking at the same problem from different perspectives.
Do you have another, perhaps better, suggestion to improve this KQ?
How about class specific KQ with SC disabled?
Basically free to play balanced PvP.
Here's another suggestion that's even better...
Ignore this content and start working on rebalance.
Why not make all PvE content honey comb ball based?
Like 350 honey comb ball to defeat SK, Then the game will be balanced.
You can use Water balloon against fire elemental monsters. Genius right?
"Oh we don't wanna make a new KQ based on current combat system because it's too broken. However, we can add a new system that nobody asked for and force the players to use it. Now they won't complain about imbalance or new content."
Well, mmorpg's is all about farming and spending time on those. Also, since you can't spend time to farm, you shouldn't have high expectations or better things than someone else that farms. I guess that's the rule. No pain, no gain. Cuz if you go full p2w, then the people that farmed a lot will get bored and eventually leave. You can't skip or haste the farming process, just because you're paying for this...
It's not really about farming..
Reason why people farmed a lot is because the side content is useless if not non-existence entirely.
I capped all classes except crusader, I got so many perms for everything with different classes at each lv. I have farmed so much and kept so much including the "trash" drops to the point that I have over 15 different accounts that are used purely as storage.
Reason for that? No side content..
Crafting system? Not a thing in this game. Trying to craft pots, scrolls or whatever is just a waste of time since you can get them through other methods like KQs, lucky house and attendance.
What can you do that doesn't involve leveling up or doing dungeons...?
Vending? Dancing in towns? That's just being afk.
KQs, dungeons, and raids aren't side content.. That's the core of any MMO
You gear up to do raid, you do kq for exp/reward to lvl up so you can do the next dungeon. You spam dungeons to get gear so you can do raid. Circle of activities
There is nothing in fiesta that breaks that. You can't for example do fishing, gathering, exploring or whatever
That's the problem now epinoia. Noone in this game that is a gladiator loves group farming for gears because IT COSTS time ofc. So someone like glad, that gamigo already OVERBUFFED, will be able to farm gears solo and get the whole profit for them. The problem for everyone here is that NOONE wants farming in groups, just because they feel they don't have the profit they would love to. If things were a bit slower on that, then not many people would actually leave.
Why would be a problem for a super godly to cost like 100G unhammered??? Im pretty sure that without hammers the prices of REAL godly would be like colossal, but why is that a problem for a 10+ years game? You also said "you don't wanna spend your life farming for good items", then why playing an mmorpg? It's really nice to have fun with friends trying to find something good, and grinding is something that mmorpgs have, i guess. Also the demand for the Item changes...check for example SK weapons...with 10 hammer tries...got it?
The reason why people prefer solo farming is because you don't have to stick to a schedule, find a decent group, and a person that everyone trust to keep the drops. You can farm on your own time and keep everything to yourself.
Profit can be decent even in a group such as CoC, and OC. Obviously, you won't get every single drop in a group and have to split up the profit which makes it look unappealing but you can still pull +200G a week if you know what you're doing without much effort.
Also, it's not a problem really for some things to be expensive, SK weapons are, but that's because they're rare rather than godly.
However, reason why it's bad for EVERYTHING good to be that overpriced is because good stats is mainstreamed in Fiesta. Nobody buys/enhances bad gear.
If a new player asked me if they should enhance an item I would only suggest them to do so if it's godly.
I don't have to say that without enhanced gear, farming is just a waste of time. So, can you imagine how long a player need to play to make that much money without selling SC? Also, having low level gear cost too much even if it's godly is rather pointless unless you're a perm in that case it is literally "END GAME" gear for you. And it still wouldn't make a much of a difference considering the poor balance of the game.
Tell me how long would it take you to get a godly 135 jewel if hammers didn't exist? 6 months? A year? Are you willing to spend a single month farming without getting anything profitable? I'm personally not willing to do so.
I play MMO because new content is always being released not because I enjoy killing slimes for 10 years. Which is why I and many others are inactive at the moment. You can farm and grind with friends for a year then tell me if that doesn't get boring.
Demand on SK weapons remains regardless of having hammers on item or not. If a glad is offered an axe, he would take it even if it's statless.
So, no. I don't get what you're trying to say here.
I do agree with The Jumping Lord
You would be wrong to think hammers are harming farmers..
Say you did a single farming session and get 10 jewels lv135, 9 are terrible and 1 is good.
9 goes to NPC = basically no profit.
1 sells for 50G
9 sells for 5G each that's 45G
1 sells for 20G (Because good ones are more abundant so price drops)
That's more profit in total. Plus, you get profit with every item which makes the time you spent farming worthwhile even if all you get are bad stats drops.
Just imagine spending an hour with 10 players including yourself just to get trash drops. And since nobody wants these then you NPC them.
You just spent an hour along with other people farming to get no profit. That doesn't really sound appealing at all.
The demand doesn't change just because you need to farm less. if 10 people need jewels then those 10 won't decrease or increase regardless of the number of people farming. You're just supplying items to these 10 players in a single session rather than 10. You're getting more value of your time.
Obviously you don't wanna spend your life farming for good drops to sell to these 10 players. Yes that will yield far more profit in the long run without hammers but with current drop rate, you're better off like this.
That being said, do I like it with hammers or without?
Depends, if we're speaking about group content then I do like hammers.
If it's a solo effort farming then I much rather no hammers.
That did happen with old Karen raids. Server organized effort. One of my best memories in this game.
Certainly, feel free to discuss the topic.
Luck is a very strange thing. You can see from the videos posted earlier in this thread by another member of the community, that some people can have a pretty good success rate at times, and there are plenty of horror stories elsewhere in the forums about using multiple bundles without getting a single +.
I would not say the system is perfect, it could be better, but it is very luck based, some people get much better rates, some people keep failing. For those who would argue about the seed table, even if there is a seed table, some luck is involved in you getting the right seeds at the right time.
With the current enhancement safety net, you can get a little bit more damage and defense which may or may not make a difference to your playing. Before this change, you could break your items before 3+, overall I think it was a beneficial change. In addition, with HC dungeons, you can now obtain +ed gears at certain levels past the 3+ range, regardless of if you find them useful or not.
I am not at liberty to discuss what enhancement rates could or could not be in the future, nor do I have the sales statistics.
Would you clarify about 'some level ranges'? What level ranges do you have in mind?
Pre 90s, I find that everything is relatively easy even without good gear.
Post 110, I find things a lot harder without enhanced gear, but that doesn't mean its not doable to level by doing quests one kill at a time. With no enhanced gear, I have to be selective which quests I decide to do, maybe if I'm lucky, I can get some help here and there. Fiesta is a multiplayer game after all.
Leveling without enhanced gear is doable as a whole, but certainly very time consuming after a certain level, also depending on your class (there's no denying it takes extra time to kill mobs on a solo cleric no matter how enhanced your weapon is). You may have to skip out on world bosses or dungeons if you prefer not to die.
Personally, I like to store or sell my enhancement stones. I use the elrues without a problem, and occasionally I may enhance items past 3+. For not being able to use them, there are other options, such as having someone gift it to you, purchase the tradable stones, ask someone else to enhance the item(s) for you, or perhaps you can purchase the already enhanced gear. It takes time to make enough gems, but it's not extremely hard to do so. Selling those 'useless' stones helps with making some gold too.
Leveling as a whole is completely possible without using enhanced gear, it is up to you if you wish to spend money to improve your efficiency or not.
That's what I'm saying.. Why is it luck based. This might've been alright in the late 2000s but right now, people are slowly ditching entire games just because such content exist especially when it is locked behind a pay wall.
As you said the system is not perfect. There are plenty of ways to counter "bad luck". Could simply make the rate 100% when a player fails 3 times in a row. But that also doesn't mean make the success rate so bad that you will fail 3 times in a row every time.
Also, the difference between a +3 armor set and +0 is insignificant. You won't tank something you couldn't previously by just getting +3 armor. That's why I'm saying this "safety net" is meaningless in a sense.
And about getting enhanced gear from HC dungeons, yes I do love that but try farming for them. First the dungeon itself is a harder version, if you're trying to farm it without enhanced gears in the first place then I can tell you that you won't make it. Take Siren Castle as an example, first you gonna take a very long time to kill mobs and then they won't drop anything. You could spend more than an hour on a single run that if you could finish it just to get absolutely nothing.
Moreover, I never said it is impossible to reach cap level without enhanced gears. It is also possible to crack a 512 bits key. How long will that take? Well you don't seem to mind it taking few thousands years as long as it's possible.
Being possible to do on paper doesn't mean it is a good implementation practically. The moment people spend a long time for a very little progress and 0 reward is the moment they quit or start doing other activities and I can guarantee that. Many examples of this from other MMOs.
Is the goal of the game to reach the cap level? No. It is to play and enjoy all the content the game has to offer which means the content that any new player look at (raids & dungeons) are locked behind enhanced gear. Yes you can attend and be a dead meat but I don't think anyone enjoys that.
I did suggest adding this item but I also asked for it to be farmed from dungeons that can be solo'ed.
Adding new KQ with new mechanic and force players to play it to get that item is just a terrible idea.
One question Zao
What do you think is the most enjoyable experience for the players?
It's easy to answer a question about the things players don't like...How about the things players love fiesta for?
Are you making a game that you and the other staff find enjoyable or a game that the community finds enjoyable? Very big difference.
Since this topic is brought up.. Can we talk about how this is not changed since 2013? HoneyTeddy
I have never played a game where a whole game system is pay to win. Enhancing without bundles is not even remotely an option.
I don't have the sales figures but correct me on my wrong assumptions...
tier 1 to tier 3 bundles don't really sell that much compared to tier 4 and 5. Basically, even the early levels where you can progress easily with NPC gear, require bundles to enhance gear.
The "safety" net enhancement bonus is very insignificant. It is practically pointless to add this feature then increase the bundle price and decrease the success rate.
There were many threads about this the moment the change was implemented.
Of course, then we got many claims about raising the success rate yet we keep experiencing and hearing the horror stories of people using many bundles on a single item.
The game currently is balanced around enhanced gear, meaning it is mandatory to progress later on.
HoneyTeddy You once said that you play the game and don't spend much money on it.. I'd like to know your experience on some level ranges without having enhanced gear. And how does it feel to get enhancement stones but unable to use because it require bundles? Basically forced to sell, throw or pointlessly store.
I thought it was a common knowledge at this point..
Don't enhance anything without bundles, not even tier 1. That's how much pay to win this system is.
Yes you can get +9 with a tier one but after breaking a ton of items in the process.
Even going +0 to +3 is cancerous most of the times despite the item being unbreakable. Down grade chance is just too high.
It would help them in PvE since you don't need the heals or the buffs as a cleric most of the time and just lacking damage. As for between classes balance, I'd imagine it being broken.
The suggestion sounds silly because that's where we at when it comes to clerics sadly. People wants to keep the class as is but give it more damage.
Also, what do you mean by progressive? Like slowly making changes to the class or be part of progressing through the game?
I'd say it's much easier to take a bigger steps even if it breaks the class. As long as the changes comes relatively quickly.
Like stacking, you go to the extreme and remove it, then you find a middle ground.
1. The game wasn't originally intended to have trinity. Don't play it so no idea why they decided to add a dedicated support character now. Maybe because the company is notorious for listening to bad player QQ.
Listening to "bad player" about adding a support class. This is what made me believe you're against the idea of having classes that can't do everything that the other classes can. Moreover, it is hard to say that the game wasn't "intended" to have trinity just because it didn't exist before as the support class fits in perfectly but that's another discussion.
When I say class balance, I mean that in my opinion, pretty much every single class, both their advantages and disadvantages, in Fiesta, are more or less off-balance. Cleric's ability to be offensively useful is a small fragment of that, so is their defense, as you mentioned. I was gonna talk about a concept of a balanced class with versatility here, but considering your reply I somehow feel like I'm shouting in the broken telephone wind.
Isn't my previous suggestion about adding nukes and debuffs to clerics constitute a "balanced class with versatility"? Being versatile is to be able to do different things other than just supporting. Also, try using a cell phone instead?
So, I'm not quite sure what you're disagreeing with.
What makes you think support classes are bad? Actually they have a neat advantage even in that game.
Also, why should a support class be able to drop other classes in PvP? That wouldn't really make them supportive more like frontliners.
Moreover, clerics are more unkillable than knights, I think that needs a serious nerf. There shouldn't be anything as tanky or better than knights. Even the average player with broken gladiator class struggle at times against clerics.
To your last point, most changes face criticism in the beginning just like the stacking change in Fiesta recently. It's forgotten or not talked about as time passes by.
But I do agree with you that the main focus shouldn't be PvP but rather PvE balance.
We could change all cleric heals to be a nuke and change their buffs to 60mins debuffs, or simply add these are new skills but with tied cooldown to the supporting skills. So the moment you use the nuke, the heals goes on cooldown based on the nuke's cooldown.
e.g. If nuke has 15s cooldown, then when you use it, the 3s heal will go on cooldown for 15s. How would you feel about that?
If that were to happen then I'll be okay with clerics being good in PvP.
One of the top MMOs that recently released it's first support class which is primarily pvp focused game yet this new class is the worst when it comes to pvp.
It function well on it's on in PvE however.
It will get purged if i stated the game's name but you can google the above and you should be able to find it. Also guess what? Nobody complained in that game that a class cannot pvp in a pvp focus game.
Actually there are plenty of games where support is just that.
Doing any form of pvp with a support is just asking to be beaten, unless it is group pvp.
Here's what fiesta's missing though. Even as a support, they should do just as well in PvE solo.
Other than that, clerics are fine.
How about acquiring these low rate stones from ingame hardcore dunegons? Even that won't work cause you gonna need at least +100 of them.
One of many issues.
I am confused. I have read multiple statements in good debate that charms destroyed the equilibrium of the PvP game. Players have said that without charms, PvP would be closer to balance than with charms. Please let me know what your thought process is. Thanks!
Yes, PvP without charms is quite good fun and has better balance.
But it is easier for you guys to consider disabling charms in PvE compared to removing charms entirely from the game.
if you want my honest opinion however, then I think charms should be removed from the game entirely. Which I have stated this in other thread recently.
Here are some possible outcomes of removing charms from the game:
1. Raids will no longer be 5 to 10mins task.
2. Knights, and clerics will be viable again.
3. Glads will no longer be able to solo the game.
4. Any form of ranking will mean something since everybody will be on similar walking grounds.
5. Game will be much easier to rebalance.
6. PvP will no longer be "first to stun wins"
1. Some dungeons require adjusting since they are balanced around charms.
2. Farming will be even worse since it takes longer to kill but the drop rate is just as terrible.
3. Leveling up will be slower.
4. There is extremely high number of charms around so even if they were removed many still have plenty to last for months.
That's 5mins of brainstorming. I'm sure there are so much more to list.
But as you can see, other than fixing the drop rate, everything else should be easy to fix.
I put slower leveling as a negative even though i believe it isn't but that's objective.