Explanation of stats.

  • Yes, but do you wear the nerd glasses? That's the true epitome of an intelligent glad.


    No he's going for the Clever Fighter title with Pure INT Gladiator.

    Current Guild Master of OneWingedAngels Guild.
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    xRei - Lvl 135 Warlock
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  • 48% crit vs 55% crit of mine, it makes difference.
    I am not at desirable 58%, but after I switched to 61 spr build extra 3.6% crit made difference.

    While you wont crit 100%, in long run even 5% more crit matters, and having more DMG sc while being backed by higher crit build sounds like better idea than having what, +150 raw dmg? +300 during crit?
    Even with 100% charm and full dmg sc (although I am not confident that DMG sc affects real dmg bonus from STR) u will only get what, +500 per hit?
    But full dmg SC glad has 1mil+ dmg and crits even raid bosses for 50k+.
    Sounds like waste. There few classes which benefit from STR more than SPR ofc, SS/knight.

    As for dex, 6k? Usualy capped glad has 5k aim or so, unless uses red DQ suit and aim sc. Base I mean, without aim scroll/dex pot.
    In pvp they dont count, mages can steal them, HKs can fully purge, and fighters can dex debuff.
    Realistically, 67 dex could be used ONLY on gladiator. Not saying its recommended build for all of course though.

    Do math, check what sc you gonna use and at what lvl you gonna stop/perm.

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  • The problem you have is you're not scaling the "raw damage" from the STR bonus.
    You're only adding it as a base total from the STR bonus.

    This being a game of numbers, allow me to break down some of those to you.

    You think having 165 STR ONLY adds +198 Damage total right? 165 STR x 1.2 Damage per STR point = 198 Damage
    This is both correct, and incorrect.

    This is in fact only the BASE damage you are adding to your character stat.
    The number is then heavily adjusted when you add multiplicative AND additive factors such as:

    Damage SC (The 75% Damage bonus I have with all my SC including my Weapon Skin)
    Charms (100% LOL why would you use anything less)
    Guild Buff (5%, 7%, or 10%)
    Vitality (With Might set, DUH!)
    Strong Fury Passive (Lower HP = More Damage)
    Cleric Party Buff (Resist or Protect, one is Damage and Defense, the other is Magic Damage and Magic Defense)
    HolyKnight's Cross (God's Benevolence, increases damage and heals over time)
    Templar's Light Orb (Increases Expedition Damage)
    Templar's DDF set (increases party damage)
    Specter DDF set (increases party damage)
    Scrolls/Potions (T6 Concentration for INT, T6 Strength for STR, and the Lvl 110 Rama Potion)
    Lvl 130 DQ Jewel Set (3-piece to add 5% Damage)
    GT Necklace (Adds 5% Damage)
    Lvl 135 Helm (Adds 10% damage, you don't need the full 4-piece set for this only the Helm, I think it's bugged)
    Love Buff (Apparently this doesn't give the 5% + 5% Stats it used to, and instead gives 5 + 5 overall)
    Lvl 120 Damage Bracelet
    Lvl 120 STR Talisman

    And whatever other bonuses you can think of to increase your single character damage.
    EVERY single one of these factors increases the TOTAL damage output from that +165 STR (or +198 Damage)
    Because your damage adds and stacks in a MULTIPLICATIVE value.

    Especially for a player like you vs me.
    If we both went SC-less and stand next to each other with zero buffs and bonuses, sure our damage might not look too much different.
    But once we're both fully scrolled/pot/buffed/charmed/etc... (with no SC gear to make it fair for you), my damage will overrule yours by a large metric.
    Even your extra Crit % will not help you to output more total damage in one raid, as my regular damage will more than make up for the lack of crits I do.
    And my Crit damage will just increase the gap even further.

    I can run comfortably with around 1mil Damage on my Gladiator solo (meaning no external player/party buffs).
    I've got a screenshot where I hit 1.4mil Damage on my Gladiator without a Templar and Spectre DDF, and missing the GT buff.
    And if I were to use a full stat reset... I won't lose 198 Damage from that 1mil. I would lose thousands, if not tens of thousands.

    Current Guild Master of OneWingedAngels Guild.
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  • 48% crit vs 55% crit of mine, it makes difference.
    I am not at desirable 58%, but after I switched to 61 spr build extra 3.6% crit made difference.


    This part specifically is what annoys me.
    You're ONLY comparing Crit ratio vs Crit ratio, like Crit is the end all answer to Damage Dealers.
    I have 75% Damage AND 48% Crit Bonus. This means at least one out of two hits will ALWAYS crit.

    Also here's some homework for you...
    Login to your Glad and get to around 1 HP, have no buffs or scrolls on.
    Now use a Mighty Vitality to increase your damage to as high as possible.
    Now what is your damage?
    Now use a T6 Strength Potion which adds "275 STR".
    What is your damage now?
    Did you gain +275 Damage, considering 1 STR = 1 Damage?
    Or did you gain A LOT MORE than that?

    Current Guild Master of OneWingedAngels Guild.
    Current Raid Leader of the Alliance.
    Current IQ: 203 (and counting!)
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    xRei - Lvl 135 Warlock
    yRei - Lvl 135 Reaper
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    The post was edited 2 times, last by Rei ().

  • Str talisman adds flat dmg as far as I recall, not %. So it wont affect your str build.

    You are grounding your calculations on assumption that SC gears/gt neck actually boosts RAW dmg bonus which STR build gives, but is it true?
    I know that charm improves RAW dmg done, like, unequip weapon and punch, this have been used for years to figure if person charmed or not (unless they changed it).

    But I dont have data proving that DMG sc actually increase RAW dmg.
    Do experiments with sc gears on and off, since I dont have skin, I cant. Punch without sc. You just just do raw dmg bonus based on STR.
    Then add sc gears, and try punching again. WIll it increase dmg done, or not?
    --------
    Lastly, if you will do math, you will see that as long as you do more than 3k dmg per hit, crit>str.
    Let me try and demonstrate:
    ---------------------
    61 str glad vs 61 spr glad, with lets say 30 crit vs 33,6. No sc gears.

    With 3k REAL dmg (means dmg you consistently do per hit, not dmg as stat), 1000 hits:
    61 str glad: (3000+73.2)*700+(3000+73.2)*2*300=3995160
    61 spr glad: 3000*664+3000*2*336=4008000
    -------------------
    Crit build won.
    If you want to recalculate with different variables (real dmg, crit), go on, I am interested.

    One of oldest veterans of game, 2008+.
    Leader of oldest guild alive in game, BandOfTheHawk (2008+).
    Godliest free players alive, 0$ invested.

    Almost full cards collection.
    Author of numerous challenging videos and speed raids, top scorer of many GTs.
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  • Yaseeda  
    Did you not do your homework and find out how much damage the T6 Strength Potion adds?
    Your total damage is also calculated the same (+198 damage from 165 STR is multiplied by all of your damage boosting factors).

    For Example:
    165 STR = 198 Damage + 400 Damage from a Talisman (let's not include the +30 STR from the Talisman to keep things simple for you).
    = 598 Damage.
    Now let's add one simple damage multiplicative factor... say 5% Guild buff.
    = 598 Damage * 5% Guild Buff = 627.9 Damage

    No STR Build = 0 Damage + 400 Damage from Talisman (not including the +30 STR again)
    = 400 Damage.
    Now adding the 5% Guild buff to that...
    = 400 * 5% Guild Buff = 420 Damage.

    ... Do you see where I'm going with this? I really can't make it any simpler...

    The amount of total damage I will have (even without any SC gear) will be far higher than yours during a raid.
    The amount of damage on mobs I will be doing will be higher than yours.
    And every time I crit, I will crit even harder than you.
    And you're relying on a CHANCE to Crit more than me to be able to out damage me.
    While my overall total damage is constant and will always be there.

    This is the problem here, you're calculating everything based on *raw damage* which only shows static figures excluding multiplicative values, and many other variables in the game.
    Yes, mathematically speaking, from purely calculating a Stat Build, the Crit out-weighs the damage.
    But when you include gear, charms, and everything else to do total damage, full STR will always win.

    You're probably thinking that I will only have +198 damage more than you with no SC on, if we had exact same gears.

    And this is where you will lose 100% of the time.

    Current Guild Master of OneWingedAngels Guild.
    Current Raid Leader of the Alliance.
    Current IQ: 203 (and counting!)
    -
    xRei - Lvl 135 Warlock
    yRei - Lvl 135 Reaper
    zRei - Lvl 135 Gladiator
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  • This post fk my mind


    The tl dr is


    full str or 25 spr full str


    My pref would be full str


    Yaseda is using raw numbers to formulate his answer. Technically speaking (theory) he isn’t wrong.


    Practically speaking he is. Full str gives piercing damage which ignores all def/protections. If you’re, say, hitting 800 on something that 198 is suddenly a lot more damage and isn’t effected by diminishing returns whereas crit can be.


    A very long time ago there was a damage formula for this game my friend worked out but alas we are not in contact and I’m not setting my pc up to make a point.


    What I would say is with base damage getting so high in fiesta with legendaries etc 135 cap the way you build has got a lot less noticeable. However, in raid situations/top level play every drop of dmg matters!


    I remember the 89 cap when the only dmg we could hit on Helga were dots/mage aoes.

    Those damn mages made sure they were full int back then since that’s all the dmg that went through :]


    However, moving away from the math and the theory crafting and drawing from practical experience in that I’ve raided 1000s of bosses on fiesta over eu/na for the last 8-9 years. Consistently raiding all the top gear attainable for my class(es).


    I would never take a glad with a full spr build over a full str into a main DD pt.


    Now there was one stage in my 9 years of raiding I can remember full str not being the best build which was on the European Bijou server @ml. 50/33 dex full str was preferred due to mls insanely high evasion/no ml jewels on the server/not many ml weps (no hcml out yet). On our server every other hit missed meaning dex in gear/build was integral to getting a monopoly on ml.


    However, most guilds ran 2 5 man DD ptys. Full str glads for the birds and the dex glads for mal itself. As evasion was not an issue on the birds players had to maximise their out put to win the drops @ raids. To do this they would have full str builds.


    Bosses & builds


    HG - Full str

    Rudy/pirra - full str

    ML- 33-50 dex rest str

    Chime - Full str

    Karen - full str

    KA - Full str

    SK - Full str


    Now I know there may be situations where a more diverse build may benefit you. However, when someone asks what is the best build I immediately think ‘top tier game play’ and for me I think server boss raid. To ensure you win these drops generally a full str build will always be preferred. 25 spr full str isn’t bad for a glad either dependant on what cs you hook it up with.

    ps 4am can’t sleep typed from my phone sorry for any typos/bad English.

  • game theory, love it when people crunch numbers and get into detail with mechanics.

    As do I but not when 80% of the information ie mobs def, dmg per hit averaged out, diminishing returns etc are excluded it makes you sceptical of said math.


    Charms not being taken into acc, crit rate/cs not being considered. I would always say look to the top raid guilds which are consistently winning since they normally are as they’ve trialed different builds/tactics which allows them to optimise dps output getting them the drop.


    Sometimes experience is a better resource to draw on.


    Maths is still good. When applied objectively with all variables being taken into acc.


    Also crit is luck based str provides consistent damage which won’t go away. You will always deal that extra dmg regardless of your rolls you may provide that dmg with crit.

  • As do I but not when 80% of the information ie mobs def, dmg per hit averaged out, diminishing returns etc are excluded it makes you sceptical of said math.


    Charms not being taken into acc, crit rate/cs not being considered. I would always say look to the top raid guilds which are consistently winning since they normally are as they’ve trialed different builds/tactics which allows them to optimise dps output getting them the drop.


    Sometimes experience is a better resource to draw on.


    Maths is still good. When applied objectively with all variables being taken into acc.


    Also crit is luck based str provides consistent damage which won’t go away. You will always deal that extra dmg regardless of your rolls you may provide that dmg with crit.


    This what I been SAYINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.

    Current Guild Master of OneWingedAngels Guild.
    Current Raid Leader of the Alliance.
    Current IQ: 203 (and counting!)
    -
    xRei - Lvl 135 Warlock
    yRei - Lvl 135 Reaper
    zRei - Lvl 135 Gladiator
    -
    Add me on Discord and ask me anything Fiesta related:
    Rei#9999

  • Well as a veteran myself, STR build is the best as Rei explained because the added RAW damage multiplies by every other buff you put into it (saying that as an old veteran Glad who used to raid 24/7 and was one of the main dd's of Bijou).


    Sadly now my glad is retired due to merge and because I refuse to go for cap on Isya (due to how expensive it is to actually stay competitive and raid in this game LOL).


    But if you plan on going for the end game and stay competitive then you must consider a STR build, period. LOL

  • Any other build, like putting SPR for the extra crit or DEX for the extra aim and eva is good ONLY if you plan on playing this game not spending too much on SC (or cant afford it LOL), this means however that you wont be a TOP player at PVE or PVP, but it will make your life through Fiesta easier.

  • Okay finally got time to reply.

    First of all, I am well aware that HYBRIED builds have their own use (soloing is easier, less sc consuming, no real weakness) but Jack of all trades is a master of none, while purely tuned for specific job setup will give better result at that specific job, but will require backing of a specific sc to not suck in other fields (as example, str builds lacking crit, so they need some crit sc).

    However there is a flaw in logic, what makes you think that STR IN GEARS works same as str in BUILD??
    It never was like this. Just like end in gears doesnt add block rate and SPR in gears doesnt add CRIT.

    STR and INT are most useless bonuses on gears from my observation, maybe high dmg/str setup will benefit gladiator due to passive/vitality/way how glad's dmg stacks, but lets be real...
    100 dmg on gear adds only like 10 REAL dmg.
    Its not same as 100 str in BUILD.
    And in light of this, whole calculation about str/dmg amplifiers looks questionable and requires checking.

    Lastly, Talisman adds REAL dmg or JUST dmg?
    I honestly dont know, didnt test. Still debating if STR talisman worthy of getting.
    Did anybody test in pvp via punching?
    If its REAL dmg, then it will add to punching, if its just a STAT, it wont.

    One of oldest veterans of game, 2008+.
    Leader of oldest guild alive in game, BandOfTheHawk (2008+).
    Godliest free players alive, 0$ invested.

    Almost full cards collection.
    Author of numerous challenging videos and speed raids, top scorer of many GTs.
    Husband of a goddess.
    Facebook, Youtube, Site.... Find them on your own.

    ---------------

    And what did YOU achieve?

    About time to answer that question.

    -------------
    Discord: Yaseeda#3171