Explanation of stats.

  • Dex/spr mages? What am I even reading. Dex is totally useless in PvE, a simple aim scroll will cover 99% of your aim needs even if you have the crappiest gears. Would only consider DEX for seasoned PvPers that want to have a chance at hitting some of the most evasive classes in game


    If you make regular use of SC, you dont need any SPR as you can easily hit the cap with costumes/accessories and in game items. Once you are freed of such worries any point you put in STR or INT is scalable extra dmg in both PvE and PvP and therefore the superior choice to maximize your effectiveness


    If you play on a budget SPR is however a must


    What are the sources or reproducible tests about DDF reaper gears adding 10% crit to party?

  • I don't really use stat SC items (except whatever things I win from events) and I can confidently say I have never found a use for STR/INT stats. I have characters with them in their build and it is completely useless after like lvl 30. The other stat bonuses offer such a bigger impact in game play in PvE that it is much more sensible to focus on dex/spr/end in my builds.


    I would say if the recommended solution is "to pay for that", as in using SC, then its not really a free to play game mind set. I am not saying people should not do other builds or play in other ways if they do want to pay for it, but most people in the game, especially ones starting out are not going to be investing in SC right off the bat on 30 day perfect SC set up which makes all yall look the same coughbatattirecreepycrawlerlegskeiguitaretccough


    It is just that there are other ways to play the game besides compensating with SC, or perhaps people like to not look like clones and so chose other SC options which make them look cute/cool and want a stat build that offers them a better diversity in SC that they are able to use. Like why get SC crit items if you are already hitting the crit cap in game with build.


    And I do not know about the reaper DDF gear tests so... I will leave that to others.

  • Can anyone actually show proof of how crit is calculated/capped? Like actual test results or confirmations from staff? Or how raw damage is calculated with SC boosts both offensively and defensively?

    Until then the "best" build is all speculation, bias and cookie cutter builds to fit certain play styles, levels, and SC item boosts.

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  • You are insisting on pure dmg solely just because it is "multiplicative value"
    but there are other components that "glad" needs other than just str.

    You can't just rely on aim scroll alone for dex/aim. Maybe you can but I like to have some extra dex and spr in my build


    " It's almost as if you people don't understand basic math, or the mechanics of the game. "

    I get what you wrote down, the first time.
    and I get where you're coming from.
    but what you failed to grasp mentally is I'm following it to "test it out" do some trial runs.


    You made your "opinion" heard about this matter in spite of that I stand firm on my decision, I'll follow his, do some experimental build on my glad.
    and If I don't like it, Then I can always do another experiment.

    If I am still not making myself comprehensible for you,
    " I am stating that
    I'd rather do some experimental builds first before picking a build that's compatible with my gameplay."





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    The post was edited 1 time, last by SinEater ().


  • As an extremely heavy SC user, and an extremely long time veteran of the game, I can safely say any new or old player who doesn't want to invest SC in playing this game is just wasting their time and efforts, especially if you would consider yourself a hardcore player/gamer.
    Unless you're just a filthy casual who is playing to socialize and make friends, the end-game/meta is a completely different level of understanding.

    My Level 135 Gladiator is running around in full Damage SC.
    This means I prioritize Damage over Crit. But most Damage SC comes with Crit anyway.
    For example; Bat Attire costume comes with 10% Damage and 6% Crit.
    I prefer to use this over the Visual Swag Suit which is 8% Damage and 8% Crit.

    There's a reason why most players wear the same SC, because it's been tested, tried and true, that it is indeed the meta SC for the end-game content.

    All DDF gear provides 10% respectively in their effect.
    So people just assume it provides 10% Crit as well.

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    xRei - Lvl 135 Warlock
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  • You're picking stats based off base value on those stats, not because of any other factors.

    Current Guild Master of OneWingedAngels Guild.
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  • You're picking stats based off base value on those stats, not because of any other factors.

    You're picking pure str due to its "multiplicative value", disregarding other elements as well.





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  • First of all, there no "ideal setup/ideal build". It depends on many factors, mostly on SC.
    Yes, you can add 0 spr and just focus on CRIT sc.
    Or you could get 25 spr and focus on dmg/crit sc.
    Or get 61 spr and get abit more dmg sc.

    For skinless/scless player 61 spr is a MUST. You will never hit 80% crit cap even with it, but having extra 3.6% makes difference, especially at cap.
    I dont know why Rei said that "50 crit base is enough", I have shown logic behind needing 58 at least.

    Dex, there bunch of evasive mobs past 115, avana, for example. 3k evasion+, if I am not wrong, its almost impossible for gladiator to get that much aim even with aim/dex pot and leg axe, so while this might be that "rare 1%" , its "1% that matters".
    Personaly I dont find 67 dex appealing enough on any class but gladiator, and it will find better use on skinless/scless player, once again.
    33-50 dex still a good deal on gladiator, lets remember, its class with LOWEST aim in game.

    Rei, lets be real, carrying HK with u for 100% buff 24/7 isnt realistic, not all are willing to dual like u. XD And in expo there usualy 10+ dpses but only 4-5 hks, which means that you could assign specific players, with lets say str builds, to be crited, while those with spr builds/crit setups will manage buffless perfectly fine.

    Lastly, about tests.
    Reaper's ddf crit was tested by me. Took guildy to TOS, spend 30 mins hitting black shadows WITH and WITHOUT him in party. Counted crits.
    Do your own tests if you want, but on average I got +9% crit bonus.
    Crit always doubles dmg. It doesnt improve it by percent or anything. Crit is doubler. % is how OFTEN it will work. Just that.
    80 crit on cap was mentioned by Kobal long ago, I dont have screen, but veterans should remember it and confirm. Ask somebody who got 100+ crit sc if they 100% crit. They dont.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    P. S. : Since many asked about mage setups... As I said 61 spr always good on low sced/skinless player, and yes I think aoes CAN crit.
    As for dex, I would go 33 on wl at least, its also class which suffers from low aim.
    My own wl is 50 dex 61 spr.

    P. P. S. : If you will do math, you will see that with real dmg above 3k str/int builds fall off in favor of crit by the way. +100 real dmg, 200 with crits, cant compete with doubling of 5k into 10k or 10k into 20k.

    P. P. P. S. : Rei still dont see logic behind full str on char like gladiator, which benefits from DMG multiplying sc much more, while being backed by spr/dex build. Have any screens of speed runs or GTs maybe where u managed to get top scores as full str player?
    Though, you are sced to max e.e Realistically can be full INT build on glad but still rock with max sc.

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    The post was edited 3 times, last by -Yaseeda- ().

  • I am not going to say I know the best mage builds.

    But I find spr/dex to be the most helpful on mages, but you might want to consider the same caps on the stats. the crit will be less effective on mages because they do not auto, and I believe the AoE after wave dmg cannot use the crit so only that first initial hit will have a chance to crit. Dex is extremely helpful because they need aim to hit bosses and mobs effectively, especially in raids.

    I see i see thanks for the info

  • You're picking pure str due to its "multiplicative value", disregarding other elements as well.

    Yes I am picking STR due to it's multiplicative value. And it's the only value in the game which remains linear in value and continues to increase in that linear value as you add to it.
    No, I have regarded almost all elements in the game as well.
    Considering I've played the game for approximately 10 years now (on and off for a few months at times).
    Add things like DEX for Aim/Evasion, and SPR for Crit/M.Def are stats which yield ultimately diminishing returns because the way Aim/Evasion is calculated (which is curve based and not linear), and the way how mobs damage is calculated on your character, is completely differently versus how you damage mobs.

    Base stats are only a small boost your character value, and the play-style you choose is based on those stats.
    I'm obviously a very aggressive player who loves to dish out a lot of damage, that's why I went with full STR builds.
    You'll see me tanking mobs with little HP to maximise my Gladiator's passive to boost my damage even more.

    Find me another Lvl 135 Gladiator who can hit 1.3mil damage in their damage stat without being pure STR, and maybe we can discuss how pure STR build is not good for Gladiators.

    Current Guild Master of OneWingedAngels Guild.
    Current Raid Leader of the Alliance.
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    xRei - Lvl 135 Warlock
    yRei - Lvl 135 Reaper
    zRei - Lvl 135 Gladiator
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    The post was edited 1 time, last by Rei: Grammatical errors. ().


  • Having a higher Crit chance doesn't necessarily mean you do more damage.
    Adding STR to your character stats allows your Crits to deal more damage as well.
    Overall with Crit you're relying on that chance to deal more damage, whereas with Strength/damage the bonus damage is always there.
    Consistency always beats chance in MMO's like this which don't include Critical Damage increase with stats.
    Not to mention Critical hit chance is superseded in stats and gear by one HolyKnight skill which I can not stress enough the importance of this game.

    You're probably thinking "Well you'll never have a HK with you all the time".
    No, probably not. But when I do, you bet I'm the primary focus for the skill considering the amount of raw damage output I can produce.
    Especially when playing my Reaper (who by the way deals 2.25x critical damage as opposed to 2x critical damage due to the Reaper passive). which benefits even more with their pure STR builds considering how fast and how hard they can attack.
    Catch me holding Shaman Khazul agro for more than half the raid on my Reaper vs Glads who are struggling to hit 1mil damage.

    DEX/SPR may be important to you because of your limited ability to fully utilise what the game can offer (SC, other class benefits, etc). But it does not beat a full damage build if you're playing a class that does... wait for it... DAMAGE.

    Current Guild Master of OneWingedAngels Guild.
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    xRei - Lvl 135 Warlock
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  • Just to clarify regarding SC/Gear.

    My character has 75% Damage Increase and a 48% Critical Rate. (This includes Weapon (without licence +5%), Boots, Earrings, and Weapon Skin)
    Which is perfect as I'm right below the 50% Critical Rate before the diminishing returns value of 1/2 Critical Rate applies.

    And with this I can crit anywhere between 5 out of 10 times as my lowest chance, and 8 out of 10 times as my highest chance.
    And then there's a HolyKnight Deadly Blessing which means 75% Damage Increase and 100% Critical Rate for 13 seconds.

    I won't be missing on any mobs/bosses. (Because I can use T6 Aim Scroll and T6 Dexterity Potion to reach 6K+ Aim)
    I won't be at risk of dying from any mobs/bosses because I can manage my HP as a Gladiator and as a Damage Dealer class.

    If I were to have a DEX/SPR build then the majority of those stats are doing nothing for me, or for my team, during farming, during raids, or during anything really.
    But being pure STR my damage is always applied, and the value is always increasing.
    There is no limit to the damage value.
    Every mob has a soft limit on how much Aim is required until you no longer miss on them.
    As a Gladiator, you would rather mobs to hit you to lower your HP, and in turn, increase your damage. Rather than miss on you which keeps damage high. (Yes I know you have Heat of Fury which can lower your HP by 2% every second, but it doesn't lower it fast enough to drastically increase your damage output as opposed to just being hit by a mob).
    Your Critical rate becomes zero once deadly blessing buff is applied on your character.
    And if you ARE the primary target of deadly blessing, with such a high Critical rate, then the skill is in turn wasted on your character.

    Current Guild Master of OneWingedAngels Guild.
    Current Raid Leader of the Alliance.
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    xRei - Lvl 135 Warlock
    yRei - Lvl 135 Reaper
    zRei - Lvl 135 Gladiator
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  • First of all, just like STR, DEX adds plain/flat bonus, not percent, not sure if you have taken that into consideration. Free stat says its %, but it lies, just like with aim/eva titles.
    Can tell that DEX is more effective at low lvl, but same could be told about STR, because at high lvl amount of dmg Gladiator specifically can do is crazy, thanks to passive and mighty set amplifiers.
    In pvp, HKs can purge ur scrolls/pots, mages can steal them, fighters can dex debuff u (esp with defect set), so, having extra dex is a plus.

    Now, crit. Yea having HK with u makes spr build worthless, but HK has CD, even with cross set backing quicken. And not always possible to have HK with u, like you did admit as well. In big expos HKs cant realistically buff all 10+ dpses too.
    Also, not ALL sc items offer hybried options for dmg+crit. Some dont, quite sure that beard/moustache, crit/dmg aura and horse head/other accs make you pick between dmg OR crit. And since gladiator benefits from DMG amplifiers the most, makes sense to add more crit in build and get more dmg in sc.

    I am not saying full str wont work. But having 100 str adds u like 120 raw dmg, 240 during crit. Even vs raid bosses glad can do solid dmg of 10k+, do math, and you will see that such small dmg bonus is insignificant, while having capped crit of 80/80 will benefit you.
    I know it because i was 25 spr for few years before switching str to 61 spr, and it boosted my DPS at raid scoreboards notably. Yes extra 3.6% crit turned out to be better than extra 50 raw dmg, surprise? Not really, expected.

    You are right that I am looking at this from perspective of low sced/scless player without skin (I am using DQ blue set, which is +12% dmg/15% crit and thanks to that got 55% base crit though).
    Sced player should recalculate, but if we are talking about glad, logic should prevail, not all sc add dmg/crit, and dmg amplifier benefits glad the most.

    One of oldest veterans of game, 2008+.
    Leader of oldest guild alive in game, BandOfTheHawk (2008+).
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    Almost full cards collection.
    Author of numerous challenging videos and speed raids, top scorer of many GTs.
    Husband of a goddess.
    Facebook, Youtube, Site.... Find them on your own.

    ---------------

    And what did YOU achieve?

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  • Big dudes using their intellectual prowess talking about the technical details of the game, when i'm here using minimal brain cells using my old and trusted full end build so I dont even have to intellectually process these walls of texts being posted. Life is simple when you go end.

    - Average is fine, I am NOT a loser

  • :/ where are you getting that Deadly Blessing increases your damage by 75%? It only adds 100% crit.


    75% Damage from my Damage SC.

    Current Guild Master of OneWingedAngels Guild.
    Current Raid Leader of the Alliance.
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    xRei - Lvl 135 Warlock
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    zRei - Lvl 135 Gladiator
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  • Yes DEX adds both aim and evasion as flat stat points.

    But at Lvl 135 if you have 6K Aim being full STR build (like I am), you won't miss on anything in PvE so there's absolutely zero point in going any kind of DEX Build.
    And SPR to add Critical rate? Like I said I'm 48% Crit base without any SPR in my Build.
    Which literally means I can crit minimum of 1/2 hits.
    And the way crit works I will be critting more often than not.
    In fact I might even crit the same amount of times as you.

    Current Guild Master of OneWingedAngels Guild.
    Current Raid Leader of the Alliance.
    Current IQ: 203 (and counting!)
    -
    xRei - Lvl 135 Warlock
    yRei - Lvl 135 Reaper
    zRei - Lvl 135 Gladiator
    -
    Add me on Discord and ask me anything Fiesta related:
    Rei#9999

  • Big dudes using their intellectual prowess talking about the technical details of the game, when i'm here using minimal brain cells using my old and trusted full end build so I dont even have to intellectually process these walls of texts being posted. Life is simple when you go end.


    Allow me to simplify it.
    PUT DAMAGE IN POINT. DO DAMAGE. WIN.

    Current Guild Master of OneWingedAngels Guild.
    Current Raid Leader of the Alliance.
    Current IQ: 203 (and counting!)
    -
    xRei - Lvl 135 Warlock
    yRei - Lvl 135 Reaper
    zRei - Lvl 135 Gladiator
    -
    Add me on Discord and ask me anything Fiesta related:
    Rei#9999