Rebalancing + Revamping Suggestions

  • Mage

    -Fire Ball cast time from 0.9 to 0.5.
    -Ice Blast cast time from 0.6 to 0.5.

    I don't see how being able to move makes it more viable. You can still move using Magic Blast. Lets also avoid making FireBall a 9 second nuke, it already does a nice amount of damage.

    Magic Blast completely obliterates Fire Ball as a single target skill currently, so let’s not fool ourselves here. Who in their right mind would prefer to use Fire Ball with a minor cast time buff if Magic Blast still completely obliterated the skill in terms of actual DPS? You’re being completely unrealistic. The skill doesn’t do a nice amount of damage at all when you go up against an opponent with actual magic defense stat, and seeing how gamigo constantly escalates magic defense of everyone to ridiculous levels, magic dmg buff for mages is necessary to keep up with that. Making Fire Ball „a nuke“ is beneficial since it will let mages combo better without getting punished over it, and I’m not entirely sure where did you get that Fire Ball is 9s CD when in fact its actual CD is 17s (That is unless you’re talking about skill empowerments, but if those come into play, then I hope you also realize that for 5 skill points for Fire Ball you also have to give up something else, and that’s not exactly an easy choice on a mage). Also Ice Blast never really needed a buff to begin with since its slow effect is quite OP, so being able to use it while moving now just makes it even better than before.

    -Electronic Shock cast time from 2.0 to 1.0.

    One change at a time. It can be buffed again if necessary.

    Complete waste of a rebalance step. The skill itself doesn’t even inflict any useful or major debuff, but it rather does something very useless, so unless the cast time disappears completely, there’s just no reason to incorporate this skill into the mage playstyle.


    Warlock

    ~Lightning chain no longer bounces, instead damages the area around the target. Target casted on gets stunned for 2 seconds. Cast animation halved.

    I will go ahead and say that it ISN'T fine. The ability just isn't justified as a PvP ability. The ability isn't very good at damage unless between two targets and you currently can't cast other abilities while its bouncing. Iry Set is too niche to be considered here, and sleep is not a stun.

    They suggested a while ago on their old rebalance page that they will rework the skill so that it will chain even with just one target, so maybe just suggest that instead of an unnecessary rework? And if the animation is the issue, ask for the animation to be adjusted so it plays better? Not a good reason to give Warlocks another CC. Doesn’t matter that sleep is not a stun, it’s still a control effect and very useful at that. Iry’s Blessing can be niche, but it’s something that works and especially so on a mage.


    Cleric

    -Increase Mace damage.

    Too much work to do when they can just buff damage. If you just swap the weps then you need to buff Guard dmg.

    Complete nonsense. Swapping weapons for both prestiges is easier since they just need to change a couple variables to swap class requirements and then swap existing maces for hammers and vice-versa whilst keeping their stats and everything so players don’t feel scammed that they lost their weapons. With this mace buff gamigo has to come up with new damage values for each mace in the game and go against the point of weapon diversity. By increasing mace damage, guardians can likewise ask for attack speed boost and it will be equally valid in this context, but it isn’t the right way to reach the balance. Like I said, simply swapping the weapons for both prestiges would iron out the disparity that Outspark hastily caused with their makeshift prestige splits.


    -Awaken has increased healing on self. Cooldown from 12 down to 10.

    Awaken is currently one of the best healing skill I don't know why you aren't sold on this skill. "Every other skill is just straight pathetic" compared to heal.. Yes that's why it was nerfed. "Forces me to go through convoluted strategies to keep a target alive" that's the point lol. And it's not that convoluted really. You might have some tougher moments where you use every single button at the same time, but I guess its funner to use a single button consistently. Rejuvenate heals more than Heal. Currently used as a backup heal when necessary, it's not to be used off cooldown like old Heal.

    Awaken, one of the best healing skills you say? I mean sure, since there aren’t many competitors when it comes to healing skills to begin with, but that doesn’t make it a good healing skill. Tell me, what’s the point of Awaken when it barely heals 1.9k HP at cap in a small radius when players commonly have 20k HP if not much more and lose this amount of HP just about instantly? Awaken is very weak and is essentially just better Recover due to better cooldown and animation speed, but that’s about it, the skill isn’t good and I’m definitely not sold on it. Spamming Awaken with sets isn’t even possible anymore since it had its cd increased by so much. Heal’s cd was increased purely because gamigo considered heals too strong for PvP, not because other heals were bad compared to it. In fact, in their old rebalance drafts, they wanted to add 2s more cd to both Heal and Rejuvenate, alongside Awaken and only really wanted to buff Recover, which had been the worst heal all along, so this is not an argument of anything. These comments make me think that you are not an actual cleric player, because what you say makes no sense. Why clerics prize their base Heal so much is the fact that Heal is actually the only good healing skill in this game, because as I said earlier, both AoE heals heal for too little and have too huge cooldown, and Rejuvenate is just lesser filler Heal that heals more, but at the cost of lower casting distance, much greater cooldown, much slower animation time, and also greater SP consumption. There is no way you can form a healing chain now when most of your heals are constantly cooling down, meanwhile with pre-nerfed heal it was possible to keep constantly healing without having to be a sitting duck so often.

    -Skill Cleanup: Stoneskin, Sacrifice combined into one.

    -Skill Cleanup: Endure, Immune combined into one. Stays as Holy Knight only upgrade. Immune effect no longer gets upgraded past 100.

    This one kinda irked me a bit. This just shows that it is hard for Gamigo to balance this game at all not because its a hard topic, but because people can't take a small change like this. Stoneskin/Sacrifice are both self party buffs that last an hour. Stoneskin=47 and Sacrifice=60. You really are not going to lose anything from combining these abilities, it just frees up a button. This isn't killing off Immune, it's just keeping the resistance %s from inflating (which it did). As a result Archers got their DoT damaged buffed heavily. Cornelius's poison will not be affected by this at all as it is 100+.


    Again, this is just something extremely short-sighted. Simply freeing up a button doesn’t mean it’s a good balance change. For starters, it makes completely zero sense to merge these two skills when they have nothing in common, so it wouldn’t work out for this reason alone, unlike with merge of Detoxify and Styptic where the two skills share common grounds in the terms that they reduce DoT damage, each for different kind. Reason why I’m saying this would kill Stoneskin is that if Sacrifice’s cd and level requirements took over, the skill that is actually valuable, aka Stoneskin, would take a huge blow in terms of viability, whereas Sacrifice, which is really not beneficial to the party, wouldn’t really have anything changed about it, and one could argue that this merge can even be detrimental since the vast majority of the game are gladiators who are upset if they get fully healed, even by a useless ability like Sacrifice. So what do I do if glads ask me to not use sacrifice merged with Stoneskin? It forces me to not use a good skill (Stoneskin) just because it’s bundled with a very useless skill (Sacrifice). No, thank you, I’d rather keep these skills separated and I’d rather give up on Sacrifice alone rather than both of them, so no, you’re not helping me in the very least. Also this proposed change to Endure and Immune is pretty much killing off Immune, since you’re inhibiting its value growths when none of that is needed in the very least. In a hypothetical situation where Immune rates are too strong (they aren’t), one could always just change Immune’s effect for it to provide DoT protection rather than resistance/immunity rather than just nerfing it in % values to make DoTs very rarely viable. Additionally, if Immune resistance rates upset you so much, what do you say to the Poison/Illness resistance and immunity pots which you can get in the game? Are they fine with you or what? Archer DoTs weren’t buffed because of the resist rates, Archer DoTs were buffed because they were too small and because Archers overall were very weak, so nice try.

    -Benediction cooldown from 1:20 minutes to 30 seconds, increase damage.

    Buffing cooldown and damage on a 1 minute ability cooldown goes a long way in terms of using it in your rotation. Heal Block isn't a bad thought.

    Benediction was never a skill worthy of such cooldown to begin with when its base damage sucks so bad and when it’s just plain damaging skill with no secondary effect, so me suggesting it to give it an effect would make this skill much more valuable than it currently is.

  • -Extinguish level 60 ability.

    This ability is quite good. It should stay as low range to not be too powerful. Increase the damage and it would be a new multi shot. Make it level 60 to help them quest, not to have them kill as fast as a mage. Making it level 60 is a great start.

    This ability is nowhere near good lmao. I know pretty much no cleric who even uses this ability due to how weak it is. Fact is, that if a cleric uses Extinguish, when killing mobs, pretty much 95% damage comes from single target skills whilst 5% comes from Extinguish, despite the fact it’s an AoE damaging skill. If this skill was suddenly lvl 60+, maybe a couple clerics would use the skill to test it out, but they’d eventually just stop using it due to how weak the skill it is and how impractical it is in usage.


    Holy Knight
    -Wall Passive removed.

    I said this before, If only HK gets buff upgrades, and only Guards get heal upgrades, why give them a passive to upgrade exactly those? Just directly buff the buffs and heals. Trust me when I say this, HK buffs are already so heavily desired you don't need a Passive to boost them in the first place.

    Neither do Guardians need heal passive to do their job, and yet they still get it, so why should the HKs be the odd ones out and have their passive removed when reworked Wall would solve pretty much every controversy surrounding its current form. Also the real reason why people seek HK is God’s Benevolence’s attack buff and crit buff, not their protect or Endure upgrades. If it wasn’t for crit buff and god’s benevolence, simply replacing a HK for another glad would bring better results in an expedition, since HK otherwise is not contributing anyhow and is only hogging a spot in the expo.

    ~New Passive: Dealing damage stacks up to 5 times, granting Defense/Mdefense to self and party members. Buff goes away when not attacking for 10 seconds.

    Not completely useless. If you use the Bash debuff, this will be very useful for you. If not, this passive doesn't negatively affect you at all.

    As if I needed defensive buffs when diminishing returns are at play with the cleric class due to their relatively high defenses, so no thank you, I’d rather have something actually useful and versatile rather than something that strictly forces me to go bashing whilst not building any actual momentum. It’s a horrible suggestion no matter how hard you try to paint it, even the current Wall passive is better than this.

    -Stronger Heal now also a Holy Knight Passive.

    I will tell you what rivals HK having Stronger Heal: Having actual upgrade for Heal. HK heal being 2K base being upped by 30% isn't the same as Guard heal being 3k being upped by 30%. Same with Rejuvenate. This is only to help them catch up to the constantly growing HP bars of players per cap. Besides Guard would have gotten a new passive with this change.

    Well, duh, that’s what I was saying. If HK needs increased healing capability, he should get upgrades for healing skills, which he originally had to begin with, not steal something that is exclusively Guardian’s. I even offered a fair exchange to make it balanced. The difference between the two solutions is that whilst HKs do get upgraded in terms of healing, it also comes at a cost of increased SP consumption, rather than a direct upgrade with no downsides. By doing things this way whilst not stripping (and possibly buffing) Guardian’s unique passive we’re still allowing the classes to do what they excel in without going against their respective concepts, and whilst also giving these class-exclusive passives an actual purpose.

    Guardian

    ~New Passive: Dealing damage stacks up to 5 times, granting Damage/Mdamage to self and party members. Buff goes away when not attacking for 10 seconds.

    That is why HK damage is being buffed. Think of HK as weaker Knights and Guard as weaker Glads, except they are support versions.

    Complete nonsense. Guardians are not supposed to be „weaker glads“ to begin with. HKs are supposed to be the more aggressive branch whilst Guardians are supposed to be the more docile branch, and you obviously missed that point. Guardians don’t need that much damage to begin with if their reason for existence is superior heals, HKs need the damage because they’re intended to be the frontline fighters.

    -Heal upgrades past 100 are 3 seconds instead of 4.

    This is the other difference between HK/Guard Heal I was explaining earlier in the Stronger Heal category.

    I still insist that Heal should go back to being 3s CD again, unless they seriously rework the other heals to make them actually viable.

    -Trip reduces target damage for 6 seconds on upgrades past 100.

    It's helpful in the way that Extinguish is helpful. It reduces damage a bit stronger and faster, which helps a Guard protect their team. Reduced eva is too powerful, there is already too much DEX manipulation in game.

    Except that Extinguish does absolutely nothing. In PvE, it doesn’t affect mobs because Extinguish reduces STR, which is a statistic mobs don’t have, and in PvP it drops barely like 200 damage off target, which is nothing when you consider just how many tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of damage people have now casually. Reducing eva is not too powerful at all if it’s kept at a reasonable range, especially since clerics have very low dexterity and hammers have pathetic aim on top.

    Archer
    ~Natures Mist Revamp: Poisons for x amount, stacking up to 3 times for 10 seconds. Damage increased. Cooldown unchanged.
    -Piercing Shot and Multi Blood Shot removed.

    I mentioned at the beginning of the original post that some changes should be bundles up and considered together. These two changes above were one of those. I don't think you really thought about the change I said. Essentially it just combines the 3 AOEs into one, freeing up two buttons and facilitating the rotation without worrying about which DOT comes next.

    Except you’re not helping the archer class at all with this suggestion. You’re suggesting that I should give up a completely fluid AoE rotation and a lot of damage for a more braindead gameplay where I’m also a sitting (or I guess in this case a running) duck for majority of the time, and that I am more or less forced to empower cd on the AoE, whilst with the current AoE rotations I can simply chain them without the need to empower anything at all. You’re basically asking for a heavy nerf on Archer AoEs when those honestly don’t need nerfs at all since Archers already deal less AoE damage than Mages currently and Archers lack an actual purpose at raids since they are outclassed by Mages.

    -Natures Speed cooldown reduced from 6 to 4 minutes.
    -Nature Swiftness removed.

    These two are also paired together. Currently Nature Swiftness is used to single cast Nature Speed. Pretty much just using the cooldown of Swiftness for Speed instead. This just makes that task easier.

    You’re basically just assuming that Nature’s Swiftness can only be used for Nature’s Speed, when in fact Nature’s Swiftness is not limited to that at all. The only reason why people use Nature’s Swiftness for Nature’s Speed is the fact that Nature’s Speed has a very long 6 minute cooldown, else they’d chain cast something else. Honestly, find a better argument than this, this is a farce.

    ~Multi-Shot now sends down a second rain of arrows after 2 seconds on upgrades past 60. (Similar to Nova/Inferno dealing damage multiple times). Ranger only upgrade.

    Ranger's playstyle isn't strictly kiting. That reasoning is why Rangers are so weak. This change isn't to affect their already strong Kiting, but to help them be an alternative option to Mages. You aren't being forced to suddenly run in a circle to get the extra damage (You shouldn't be doing that!!). Removing cast time is a NoNo.

    This will certainly not allow Rangers to be „an alternative option to Mages“, since Mages will outdamage them with utter ease whilst also slowing mobs down, and I hope you also realize that Mages are precisely needed to circle around their AoEs to rack up their AoE damage, they can’t just wander off aimlessly since they’d lose all of that AoE damage they were trying to rack up in the first place, so what would make a Ranger different from Mage in this situation? I don’t really get this „genius“ idea since it doesn’t make any sense. Rangers really are mostly balanced around kiting and crowd control, and Entrap Flowers help them with that quite nicely, so going against that principle makes no sense. How is removing cast time a no no, when Multi Shot is already so much worse than the AoE poisons? There is literally zero issue with removing the cast time for the skill.

    Ranger
    -Crossbow attack speed changed from 1.4 to 1.3.

    Help them compete vs Gladiator damage.

    And why should they compete against Gladiators when both DDs have completely different roles?

    -Bomb Arrow instantly deals damage.

    Why though? Just make it pop instantly. Currently this game has no other reactivation abilities so we don't even know if they are capable of it.

    It’s called strategy. Why should I blow up a target right away when I could just wait for the right moment to set the bomb off? Or when I could simply chain cast bombs with Nature Swiftness on 2 separate targets and have both bombs set off at the same time whilst they’re near each other and ideally near other enemies as well to deal double the damage to the crowd and possibly obliterate everyone? Automatic instant detonation doesn’t allow for any strategy and turns it into just another brainless damaging skill, which would be a terrible waste considering its potential.

  • Sharp Shooter
    ~New Passive: Standing still for 2/4/6 seconds converts 10%/20%/30% of the damage to true damage.

    It says what it reads, convert 10%/20%/30% of the damage you deal to true damage. This might not be as good as you might want, but it's a start. You can't make the very bold changes so quickly and expect it to go well. At the end of the day, this is still a buff.

    That’s a dumb idea then and isn’t really helping Sharpshooters in the very least against squishier targets.

    Trickster

    -Skill cleanup: Styptic, Resilience, Detoxify combined into one skill.

    Nothing wrong with giving a Spectre a Reaper skill and vice versa. The level difference should not stop anything as I explained with StoneSkin.

    You never explained anything with level differentials when it comes to Stoneskin, you never said which level requirement would take place. How is sharing Spectre and Reaper abilities not wrong? Do you even care about character rebalance at this point? Because these changes overall make no sense and make the game more braindead than it already is.

    -Skill cleanup: Exhaustion, Consume combined into one skill.

    The cooldowns being different is not an issue that should stop you from combining two very simple skills.

    I would consider it a big issue if a skill with only 6s cd suddenly had 3 minute cd just because it was a part of a bundle with another skill. And then there’s the usual arguments why merging these random skills is a bad idea.

    -Force Slash changed to knockup instead of knockback.

    This makes more sense than any other change I requested. This is changing nothing but the debuff. Now when you jump instead of pushing your target you knock them up. This is a BUFF in PvP not a nerf.

    No, this doesn’t make any sense in the very least. Why should a trickster knock up by performing a motion that is pushing someone down/away? This doesn’t even fit the trickster class since knock ups like these just kill the momentum for the class.

    Reaper
    -Passive bonus damage changed to true damage.

    This would improve their niche as being an armor shredder and improve their DPS in PvE. I want to point out that true damage is stronger than bonus damage.

    You’re out of your mind, Reapers are already more or less even with Specs in terms of PvE damage when they shouldn’t be. Why would anyone in their right mind make a Spec if Reaper outperforms them in every area of the game? Proves you don’t care for character balance at this point.

    -Sneak Attack casting distance increased to 9.0m.

    This wouldn't make any other ability obsolete. This would help them be better at their PvP job too, and not be played around with.

    Oh yeah, because literal kings of PvP need to be buffed even more so they’d be even more unbeatable than they are now. Why don’t you also suggest that Reapers get to kill opponents without the need to use souls and can do so with only soul gathering skills instead? Since it makes things more convenient for them, as is your usual argument for basically every suggestion so far?

    Spectre
    -Shame Passive removed.
    ~New Passive: Pressure: Missing or dodging an attack will cause your next basic attack to not miss and deal an additional xxxx-xxxx bonus damage.

    This is basically just polished Shame. The passive you suggested is the one I suggested for Reaper. This passive changes their currently bad passive enough to be considered a buff.

    Except Reapers don’t deserve any buffs since their passive is already very good to begin with, lmao. How on earth is increased critical damage a bad passive? You’re clearly out of your mind. Specs are the trickster class that needs actual buffs, not Reapers. Reapers at most need their 110 skill fixed, and that’s about it.

    -Lethal Assault cooldown from 4 minutes to 1:30 minutes.

    It's weak because it is an AOE.

    So what? Still doesn’t justify the super long cooldown. Much lower cooldown would at least let it shine as damage boost in instances with many mobs, since it’s completely useless against single targets.

    -Blade of the Sky HP/SP consumption reduced by 10%.

    It is a super strong ability, reducing the consumption a bit more is not just only a quality of life change but a decent buff to begin with.

    Not really that strong if Flame Slash outdamages with 2 set effects activated to boost its damage. So again, why should I use a skill that essentially kills me if I can go for a skill that is much safer to use and deals more damage overall? There is nothing bad about reducing the consumption to only 50% rather than 70%

    Templar

    -New Passive: Crusader basic attacks deal an additional xxxx-xxxx magic damage.

    OR

    ~New Passive: Crusader basic attacks deal an additional 20% damage based off their magic damage.

    This passive helps them with their hybrid damage mix, dealing not only bonus damage, but that bonus damage being magical. A small boost to any ability is not something they need, since there is no split. Those "boosts" can just go straight into their abilities. -It's not hard to come up with a passive, I just did that.

    No, you’re just assuming that Templars are pure damage dealers when they’re not. There’s nothing bad about boosting more than just damaging skills with their passive since that aids their versatility just perfectly.

    Fighter
    -Bone Slicer, Fatal Slash Knight only upgrade.

    This in no way makes Knights better or worse, it is a small nerf to Glads. Making them one hand only would be a no go for the most played class in the game.

    How is this a small nerf to glads? You do realize that slash set fatal slash reduces more than 20% of target’s defense, right? So glads will lose a lot of damage on slashable opponents whilst having to rely on Knights to fill that niche. Simply taking away upgrades from Glads will do nothing as long as Slash Set exists, because the only reason why Fatal Slash is so strong to begin with is Slash Set, the skill itself otherwise would be completely overshadowed by HK’s Bash debuff.

    -Whirlwind damage increased.

    This would help both Glads and Knights in their role in a party being the crowd controller.

    They already have Demo, Deva, AoE mocks and in knight’s case there’s also Earth Strike, a simple raw damaging AoE skill doesn’t aid the purpose of „crowd controlling“ in the very least.

    Knight
    -Slice and Dice damage increased.
    -Earth Strike damage increased.

    Why is it unnecessary? Cause Knights are good? Cause they aren't. They are just walls and nothing else. Let the dudes enjoy some damage.

    Knights are very good lol, they just aren’t needed in PvE because glad can tank everything with 100% charms and extender and while providing more damage, but that doesn’t mean knights themselves are bad. Knights are extremely strong in PvP and can dish out serious damage even with 1H sword and still have the option to switch to 2H to get even more damage. Why should knights be able to dish out even more damage whilst using 1H? This suggestion makes complete zero sense.

    -Skill Cleanup: Volley removed.

    As far as I am aware, this ability is bugged. Not only that, you are kind of hurting your healer that is standing there half the time not paying attention and spamming heal by doing this.

    Assuming the skill is bugged, all that needs to be done is to have the skill fixed, there’s no reason to remove it completely. If a healer is not paying attention, that’s his fault and not the knight’s, healer should know better than that. Besides, it’s not like it’s necessary to spam the skill or anything, so these worries are just pointless.

    ~Discharge now turned into a pull ability, rooting the target for 1 second. Can stay as the same animation, but repeated backwards as if pulling the sword back by a chain.

    In any game that has a tank, they are either tanky with damage, or tanky with the ability to control a fight. Knights are just tanky. Let them at least control a fight just a little by bringing in a single target every minute.

    Except Knights can dish out serious amounts of damage if they know what they’re doing, and their CC is nothing to sneeze at either. You do realize that Knights in PvE can essentially just spam Earth Strike, Deva and Demo to constantly keep mobs helpless, right? Also how is 1s root anyhow useful as a control ability? These troll roots are completely useless and should be kept out of the game.

    Gladiator
    -Rear Defense passive removed.

    Knights should not get this.. Just remove it from Glads.

    I don’t really see what’s bad about Knights getting the passive. It’s either both fighters or none at all.

    -Violence removed.
    -Heat of Fury now also increases attack speed by 0.1.

    These changes are to be taken together. This change not only removes the powerful 0.1 attack speed from Violence, but it also (you guessed it) makes it a harder choice to consider.

    Still makes it an irrelevant feature for Heat of Fury since Heat of Fury is primarily used to increase damage of a Glad, and also the fact that glad stacking essentially negates the slow AS for a good amount of time for it to matter.

  • I am not going to add extra walls of text. I will keep it simpler this time without adding on to your flame. My text is blue.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    133 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    115 Holy Knight
    109 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)
    105 Wizard

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • I am not going to add extra walls of text. I will keep it simpler this time without adding on to your flame. My text is blue. Part2.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    133 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    115 Holy Knight
    109 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)
    105 Wizard

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • I am not going to add extra walls of text. I will keep it simpler this time without adding on to your flame. My text is blue. Part3.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    133 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    115 Holy Knight
    109 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)
    105 Wizard

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • Mage

    -Fire Ball cast time from 0.9 to 0.5.
    -Ice Blast cast time from 0.6 to 0.5.

    At 115:
    Fireball is 14640+3092dmg 17-10.5sec
    Magic Blast 5461+2515 4-2.8sec
    I would be quite intrigued with half the cast time cut. Ice blast would only lose .1 cast and help it be more fluent. I hear 135 set makes MB better, but idk the numbers yet.

    I hope you realize that the values listed in the skill descriptions are just „additional magic damage“ and don’t exactly imply that they will deal quadruple damage or whatever just because the additional magic damage is quadruple as well. Most of the damage comes from the weapon itself, and if you have a well-geared mage that has, let’s say, for example 100k base magic damage, and Magic Blast gives for example 10k additional magic damage whilst Fire Ball gives 30k additional magic damage, you have 110k total magic damage in one skill vs 130k total magic damage in one skill. One Magic Blast deals 84% Fire Ball’s damage in this demonstrative example, letting Magic Blast easily exceed Fire Ball’s DPS with just 2 shots, and not only that, you can cast a lot more Magic Blasts in Fire Ball’s cooldown, both empowered and unempowered (and then there’s the fact that diminishing returns are a thing with OP magic defense, making the differential between the two skills even smaller dmg-wise). The fact that Warlock’s ToG set empowers Magic Blast’s damage by additional 30% (which is more than Sun Set dmg boost btw) just makes it a complete no-brainer to not bother with Fire Ball at all when it brings nothing to the table. It’s as simple as that. Ice Blast was very strong pre-buff, it’s even stronger post-buff and you’re just trying to make it even stronger than that. Ice Blast is already good, so there’s no real need to empower the skill more.

    -Electronic Shock cast time from 2.0 to 1.0.

    Not everything has to be a debuff, suggest a damage buff. Mages can't be using aoes too quickly they are already too strong at it.

    Why should mages get another raw damaging skill, especially when it’s worse than everything else DPS-wise? Removing cast time from this skill would be beneficial, since this way a mage could use it as a DPS boost and also a skill that could be used to get opponents off-guard, since the debuff of it is just a bit disruptive and nowhere near being overpowered.


    Warlock

    ~Lightning chain no longer bounces, instead damages the area around the target. Target casted on gets stunned for 2 seconds. Cast animation halved.

    Chaining off one target may as well be a single target spell. The animation change is here to stay. Its 2 sec.

    How the hell is it a single target spell lmao. This change would just make it viable on a single target too, wouldn’t change its effect in a multiplayer setting. Who are you to say that the animation change is here to stay? Are you a Gamigo CEO or what? 2 second stun is still too OP coming from the mage class.


    Cleric

    -Increase Mace damage.

    If you swap weps, you would need to still buff maces. Some people will prefer the look of their current wep. Avoid this change.

    Why should maces get buffed in damage? Makes no sense. If maces get buffed in damage, then I want hammers buffed in Attack Speed. For reference, just take a look at staves and wands for Mages – damage differentials and AS are much smaller than with other weapon types. If we have maces noticeably stronger than before, then hammers will be considered less powerful in comparison, unless they have AS buffed offsetting that. Another problem with buffing maces in the scenario where Guardians get maces is the fact that Guardians don’t need more damage for anything, as the more docile cleric branch. If lvling is the only argument to buff damage, just rework Extinguish to make it worthwhile. Simply adding tons of STR to the cleric character will not magically make it an excellent solo character choice. Also please refrain from using these bogus arguments such as „appearance“, when vast majority of competitive playerbase pursues ugly looking costumes and weapon skins just to get statistical edge over the others. Rebalance doesn’t care for appearances, as that’s not its intended purpose.


    -Awaken has increased healing on self. Cooldown from 12 down to 10.

    You struggling with heals at cap? Stronger Heal would fix this. But now seeing the bonus, that might need to be higher (It's 5%).
    At 115 HK:
    Heal 2000+1000dmg, 4-.9sec
    Rejuv 3100+1550dmg, 10-3sec
    Recov 1900dmg, 24-9sec
    Awaken 1400dmg, 12-2.7sec (Same range as Recov)
    These numbers are very nice and using other heals or skills in between each one is superb. Consider suggesting to buff other heals, like I'm trying too. I love playing support cleric!

    I am using capped Awaken merely as an example, since that is this skill’s current peak of healing. If we go to the lower level realm, Awaken just becomes more pathetic alongside Recover. The figures you have listed are nowhere near impressive, Heal basically just destroys every healing skill you’ve listed, and what’s sad, it also assumes you empower AoE heals just to get a bit more frequent usage out of it, meanwhile empowering AoE heals is an infrequent practice right now, because the 10 skill points that are required to empower both are much more appreciated elsewhere with the 100+ class split, at least for Holy Knights. But anyways, if you ask me, Awaken and Recover need a drastic boost in terms of healed amount. Awaken should be able to heal at least 3k HP at cap whilst Recover should be able to heal around 4k HP or more at cap, or something similar to make them more aligned with Heal/Rejuvenate. Additionally, make both skills expo-wide rather than party-wide, because nerfing Heal really ruined expo healing specialists in their job, so this would make up for it somewhat. As for Rejuvenate, reduce it’s cd to 7s base, making it 4s cd fully empowered. This would allow a cleric to chain their single target heals better in conjunction with their basic Heal skill without necessarily making them a sitting duck for so long.


    -Skill Cleanup: Stoneskin, Sacrifice combined into one.

    -Skill Cleanup: Endure, Immune combined into one. Stays as Holy Knight only upgrade. Immune effect no longer gets upgraded past 100.

    They don't need to have common effects to be combined? They are used at the same time always. You are making a huge deal about a 1 minute cooldown when I never said to make it 1 minute. I am not fine with immune pots XD there is too much resist in game but we aren't talking about potions. Archer DOTs were never sticking and when they did they did little damage, so they buffed them.

    I see you completely ignored the point that I was making with dropping 2 skills at once instead of just one of them in case I was asked to not use it, and the argument that „they are used at the same time always“ is completely irrelevant, since Sacrifice technically isn’t really needed or useful to the party and most clerics just use it because it’s kinda there. Meanwhile Stoneskin is an ability that drastically helps cleric with survivability against physical mobs and thus most people would prefer to have it always ready than having to wait one minute every time to recast it. I am making a huge deal out of it, because you’re being excessively cryptic and vague and not getting to the point, so don’t blame me for that. Archer DoTs were buffed because archer DoTs were too weak, regardless of character resistance. PvP isn’t everything, PvE is also a thing, and many mobs have 0% resistance to DoTs. If even mobs take basically no damage from DoTs, you know it’s needed to buff them, so please stop trying to twist this. Nerfing Immune is not at all needed, considering the fact it’s a removable buff, so it doesn’t break anything, and working around 100% resist rates is possible without butchering the skill itself, so just stop pretending that it breaks the game when it actually doesn’t.


    -Extinguish level 60 ability.

    Whenever I used it, it felt like I got hurt less but just me I guess. Why not suggest to change it to lower dmg? Clerics would use it to help them chip all monsters around, not useless. Suggest increasing the damage, not turn it into a Mage aoe.

    You seem to be confusing it for low and high damage rolls then, because this skill really doesn’t affect PvE or PvP anyhow. Even at 105 cap with people being mostly +0 geared in NPCs and 95 gears, the str debuff would take away like 8 damage from a 3 figure damage in PvP, which is essentially negligible. Reworking this skill to a mage knock-off skill is the only sensible thing to do, because having to constantly spam Extinguish with its awkward usage gets seriously annoying over time, and the damage lowering debuff would only really work if Extinguish worked like Demo, which is a lot more convenient to use even though it deals no damage. I’d rather have Extinguish resemble a mage skill, which is partly the concept of the cleric class, rather than an archer skill, who has nothing in common with cleric.

  • Holy Knight
    -Wall Passive removed.

    Powerup buffs is a useless passive for HK, just like Stronger Heal is useless for Guard. Just put the power into their heals/buffs. When in raids, HKs are always placed in main pt for the dmg/def buffs. Cross/Crit affects entire raids already, why not use the Guard?

    Effect boosting passive is good for a holy knight lmao, since it affects more than just their exclusive skills. It also affects shared skills like Resist, Immune, Stoneskin, Sacrifice, Invincible, Invigorate, Restore and who knows what else. Likewise Guard’s passive also increases healing power of Awaken and Recover, which are also shared skills, so idk what you’re talking about here. I still insist on what I said earlier about the passives. Also Holy Knights aren’t really always placed in the main DD party, since they don’t need to be there to use God’s Benevolence for the whole expo and Crit Buff is a targeted buff that doesn’t require a party. A single raiding party for a world boss needs only one HK, one Templar and an army of gladiators to win any fight pretty much. Party Buffs are not a good argument, because 4 Glads with like extra 2k dmg and def or so will not outperform 5 Glads without these minor boosts. For instances it’s mostly the same story with the exception that in some instances you might also want to consider swapping one gladiator or a temp for a mage (ideally warlock) for AoEs and CC. That’s pretty much the current viability chart of fiesta.

    ~New Passive: Dealing damage stacks up to 5 times, granting Defense/Mdefense to self and party members. Buff goes away when not attacking for 10 seconds.

    This Passive encourages Bash usage, and helps tanks and everybody else stay alive and require less heals.

    Not really, this passive forces clerics to bash if they want to get anything out of it, which basically limits HKs in their freedom and they get punished if they want to be more of a supporting class than an attacking one. Also tanks don’t need this passive at all either, since they have a similar situation going on with diminishing returns. Knight in particular has a passive where he gets massive def and m def boost as his HP drops, and since his full health defense is already undisputed best in fiesta, Knight becomes just incredibly hard to kill, so adding this weird gimmicky passive just helps nobody. Also making someone too tanky would defeat the purpose of having a Guardian, so we can’t really take that route.

    -Stronger Heal now also a Holy Knight Passive.

    Too many people are being too simple minded saying that HK getting this passive will take away Guard strength. IT WONT.

    And it will, because Stronger Heal also affects AoE heals which HKs have access to, so AoE Heal-wise we’re now equalizing HKs with Guards for no reason whatsoever.

    Guardian

    ~New Passive: Dealing damage stacks up to 5 times, granting Damage/Mdamage to self and party members. Buff goes away when not attacking for 10 seconds.

    Im not making Guards to literally be weaker Glads. I know they are the docile branch, which is why I had them get the decreased dmg and knockback on attacks. For the same reason they are docile they need that high damage and low attack speed for the few times they do use an attack, thought of that? I was already considering increasing the effect time of this Passive. This Passive will help Guards give more damage in party and be more desired.

    This is complete nonsense as well. HKs generate the best burst damage momentum when they spam attacking skills with crit buff activated, negating their AS advantage as opposed to Guardian’s damage increase, which would actually complement this kind of playstyle. Guards outdamage HKs with ease based on the principle that hammers have like twice as much damage as maces or so, which is just stupid. The more docile branch doesn’t deserve to outdamage the more aggressive branch, stop trying to justify this unbalance, this is like saying that a knight should get 2H axe and Glad should be restricted to 2H swords only, because „Glad has better AS, and a DD knight needs to make his slow hits count as much as possible when doing damage“. Also as I said earlier, this passive goes completely against the purpose of the Guardian and wouldn’t really guarantee them access to raid parties.

    -Heal upgrades past 100 are 3 seconds instead of 4.

    I like your second idea.

    Already elaborated on what kind of buffs should be made for the heals.

    -Trip reduces target damage for 6 seconds on upgrades past 100.

    I explained extinguish before. Eva reduce isnt strong but it is with all other eva decrease and aim increase considered.

    I still don’t see the issue here. Combining eva debuffs in PvE isn’t bad as it emphasizes that teamwork leads to better results than playing alone, and considering the fact that some targets are just too evasive for their own good that a simple blow to their eva wouldn’t really hurt them all that much (Emperor Slime, Lava Avanas just to list some examples). As for PvP, that is honestly irrelevant, because in group PvPs this would rarely happen unless enemy team is just too dumb and lets themselves get ganged upon too easily or if they’re just too outnumbered. Still doesn’t make it OP in the very least though, it would be an impractical gimmick at best.

    Archer
    ~Natures Mist Revamp: Poisons for x amount, stacking up to 3 times for 10 seconds. Damage increased. Cooldown unchanged.
    -Piercing Shot and Multi Blood Shot removed.

    What is the point of skill empowerments if there is one set way to empower a class? Templars don't have this luxury. Regardless, this does help the class. The singular AoE will have increased damage, meaning only one skill to empower damage if you want. This skill will stack poison 3 times, meaning that it will do the same damage as all 3 other poisons currently do. This comes at the price of 5 skill points (oh no!). I plan on changing MultiShot for AoE dmg, and increase attack speed to help at raids.

    As far as skill empowerments go, I’m opposed to their whole concept, because skill points do make some skills utterly broken, meanwhile some skills need skill points in order to actually work properly. Also with the potential introduction of new skills, there simply won’t be enough skill points to make all of this work. If anything, skill points are just another method to make money, because devs rely too much on people empowering wrong skills and then spending either 5€ on skill reset scrolls or 15€ on skill reset capsule to fix their beginner‘s mistakes. Also I went over this earlier, having a singular AoE skill with increased damage will not lead to a damage increase of the class and will serve only as a huge AoE damage nerf. Let’s assume that the 3 AoEs we have now all have 10k additional damage, whereas this hypothetical hybrid has 30k additional damage and we have a ranger sitting at 100k base damage. Using 3 AoEs, I’m able to use my crossbow damage, which matters the most, 3 times as opposed to this stupid hybrid that lets me use my crossbow damage only once. With the 3 AoEs combined I easily outdamage one use of this skill and it also rewards me for using them fast, whilst also having more chances of landing my DoTs on resistant targets. Sorry, but I’ll gladly take 252% combined damage with 0 skill point investments over 100% damage with 5 skill points invested to make it as usable as possible (and again, diminishing returns support the idea to use 3 separate AoEs much more than having one united hybrid). Empowering damage on the united AoE skill is an even worse idea since it’s essentially just me throwing away even more points that could be used elsewhere, and if I was feeling jolly about throwing points away, I could just empower damage of the 3 poison AoEs as well and it would invalidate this point even more.

    -Natures Speed cooldown reduced from 6 to 4 minutes.
    -Nature Swiftness removed.

    For the most part, yes Swiftness is usually used with Speed. Can also suggest to me to keep them both at the same cd as you said while stripping the flame away and I would have accepted that.

    But I already said that Nature’s Speed needs to have less than 2 minute CD since it’s Archer’s defining skill. You’re the one who ignored it and came up with the weird assumption that Swiftness is just there to make Speed better and has no other purpose.

    ~Multi-Shot now sends down a second rain of arrows after 2 seconds on upgrades past 60. (Similar to Nova/Inferno dealing damage multiple times). Ranger only upgrade.

    Mages alone circle the AoE cause they have too. Archers when alone will just kite not circle the AoE lol. If you beef up multishot to be a proper aoe then 0 cast time is an issue. Rangers will probably never replace Mage AoEs, but at least help them come close to that...

    So you’re essentially saying that this reworked Multishot is completely useless to Rangers since it does nothing to help their kiting gameplay, what a nice „buff“ of the skill, making it lesser mage AoE but with even smaller purpose. Simply removing cast time on multishot would at least make this skill viable in PvP if nothing else, your suggestion does absolutely nothing for the class.

  • Ranger
    -Crossbow attack speed changed from 1.4 to 1.3.

    Irrelevant to compare their roles. Glads are best DD in game nobody wants an Archer, so help them single target a little?

    Oh yeah, what a nice solution. Rangers can’t do their primary job due to Mages outclassing them completely in that regard, better make them a second rate single target damage dealers instead of fixing their real viability problem. Also single target damage goes under Sharpshooter’s jurisdiction, so I don’t get why are you making Rangers step into their territory.

    -Bomb Arrow instantly deals damage.

    Think about that again. You can't chain two bombs and pop both at the same time. You must pop the first bomb before throwing the 2nd one with your suggestion.

    Not necessarily. Can just rework the skill „Bomb Removal“ to be a „Bomb Detonator“ that sets off all player-induced bombs or make it a new skill for Ranger.

    Sharp Shooter
    ~New Passive: Standing still for 2/4/6 seconds converts 10%/20%/30% of the damage to true damage.

    Yup. True damage does less dmg vs squishy targets, but its still more damage.

    No, it’s not. You have essentially proved that my initial SS passive suggestion is far better than this.

    Trickster

    -Skill cleanup: Styptic, Resilience, Detoxify combined into one skill.

    No need to have so many of these similar effect skills separated just to make you think more, its pointless. Since you REALLY insist on me saying the exact levels these skills would be, I will update it later.

    As I said I can understand merging Styptic and Detoxify, but not class exclusive skills and present them as shared skills in a bundle.

    -Skill cleanup: Exhaustion, Consume combined into one skill.

    Explained it to you multiple times already.

    No, you never did. Stop lying and being so vague and cryptic about it.

    -Force Slash changed to knockup instead of knockback.

    Tricksters jump to the area, creating a rupture on the ground. This can easily be changed to a knockup.

    How the hell does rupturing the ground imply a knock up effect?

    Reaper
    -Passive bonus damage changed to true damage.

    Along with Spec buffs, both classes should be getting their DPS increased. I still care about the balance. :]

    You’re doing nothing but making Reapers more broken than they already are whilst neglecting Spectres hardcore just like Gamigo. Current Spec passive is pathetic, and polishing it doesn’t make it any less pathetic. This arguably just makes things worse since Specs care about 7s damage the most, not AAs.

    -Sneak Attack casting distance increased to 9.0m.

    Cause souls are still required. Not responding to this sassy one.

    You were kinda asking for it, because the reasoning that „Reapers are not to be played around with.“ Just proves you don’t understand just how OP Reapers are at PvP currently, so buffing Sneak Attack to the point it doesn’t need Binding Blow is basically the equivalent of allowing Reapers to kill with soul generating skills or simple damage dealing skills unrelated to souls.

    Spectre
    -Shame Passive removed.
    ~New Passive: Pressure: Missing or dodging an attack will cause your next basic attack to not miss and deal an additional xxxx-xxxx bonus damage.

    Increase crit damage is not a bad passive. This is the Spec passive we are talking about.

    Read the responses again, I was making my own suggestion for Spec passive which involves ignoring 10-25% opponent’s defense based on the tier of the skill and when using soul consuming skills. You were the one who brought up Reaper passive in this part, not me.

    -Blade of the Sky HP/SP consumption reduced by 10%.

    70% is a start.

    More like a waste of time, since it will hardly make any difference.

    Templar

    -New Passive: Crusader basic attacks deal an additional xxxx-xxxx magic damage.

    OR

    ~New Passive: Crusader basic attacks deal an additional 20% damage based off their magic damage.

    Lets give them a passive that boosts their: heals/buffs/aoes/etc. All these passives are redundant when you can buff the skills directly. This passive puts their mdmg to use

    Can make the same arguments for the basic passives that just increase dmg/mdmg/evasion/SP/weapon dmg and whatnot, or even class exclusive passives like Archer’s Order or Magical Move. And if you insist on this to be a gimmicky passive rather than a consistent one, it can be done whilst preserving the spirit of boosting the variety of abilities Templars have.

    Fighter

    -Bone Slicer, Fatal Slash Knight only upgrade.

    "So glads will lose a lot of damage on slashable opponents whilst having to rely on Knights to fill that niche. " :) Yes.

    So you’re agreeing that making slash and bone slicer 1H equip will boost Knight’s demand, good.

    -Whirlwind damage increased.

    It does.

    It doesn’t. Simply doing raw damage to multiple targets doesn’t count as crowd controlling. It’s the debuffs that make all the difference. And like I said earlier, knights have plenty of that, meanwhile increasing damage will only really benefit glads who overall don’t need this benefit at all, or rather shouldn’t get this benefit.

    Knight
    -Slice and Dice damage increased.
    -Earth Strike damage increased.

    The point of this is to help them catch up to Glads, without bringing Glads down as much. Simple.

    And why should they catch up to Glads when Knights are supposed to tank in the first place? You’re just trying to make Knights 2nd Glads. Just make Knights relevant as tankers and that’s all you really need for them to return to tank, else there will be only PvP Knights just like now.

    -Skill Cleanup: Volley removed.

    DPS should be paying attention and hitting the right target? In a perfect world I guess.

    If a target is inaccessible through normal means and Knight is locked onto it, this makes it a perfect targeting redirection skill, or for example changing melees in DDF can also be conveniently done through Volley. Clerics can safely switch back to knight from Volley, so this is not an issue.

    ~Discharge now turned into a pull ability, rooting the target for 1 second. Can stay as the same animation, but repeated backwards as if pulling the sword back by a chain.

    When you pull the enemy you want to keep them in place long enough to use your follow up.

    Definitely not with root, because root still allows for attacks. Discharge has an elevated aggro generation, making it a ranged pull on mobs to begin with, so this change is just unnecessary.

    Gladiator
    -Rear Defense passive removed.

    None at all.

    Sure, it’s an unfair ability to begin with.

  • Again with the walls with you. I'm red.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    133 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    115 Holy Knight
    109 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)
    105 Wizard

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    133 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    115 Holy Knight
    109 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)
    105 Wizard

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    133 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    115 Holy Knight
    109 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)
    105 Wizard

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • They have reached an agreement ladies and gentlemen. Well done

    imagine that all their effort is wasted and non of this is considered or implemented. That would be pretty funny

  • My idea for a passive is exactly what you said, something for people who want to hit things. I don't see any issue currently with support Clerics honestly. They are performing pretty well and that is why I didn't suggest much at all for them. They aren't "required" to fill no other role, it's all situational.

    My bad for assuming you don't play the other classes at all, but you also assumed that I prefer being a melee fighter Cleric. I very much love playing the support role as well, I was just opening up their usage. I attempted to broaden up Archer usage as well with the Multi-Shot changes in my post. Using DDF as an example, a Cleric might want to be more supporish at the Wind boss but they can open up at the Fire boss and attack that one instead as it's not as chaotic.

    Sorry I didn't read your previous suggestions years ago or I just don't remember them, but I think you should have saved up some shortened ideas you truly think are necessary to say. Currently the only Cleric idea I see most of the Cleric players come here or anywhere for is because of their +1 second heal which I don't think is necessary to even revert. They have plenty of abilities that can cover up that time frame.


    I have not seen a single new passive suggestion for Clerics other than the one previously that said my passive suggestion can activate through heals. Please don't say stronger buffs/heals... That's a waste of a passive, that "passive" can be directly put into the buffs and would have the same effect. Stronger Heal on HK/Guard benefit both of them, with it being a smaller effect on HK to help them keep up with the healing but still being a powerful effect on Guard as they get to keep Healing upgrades.

    I never assumed you were attack only cleric, I said you're passive suggestion only benefits attacking clerics which in turn is an issue to support clerics who should be able to utilize the passives they add for clerics. It does not make sense to have a passive at all that does not support the general idea of what a cleric is.


    You do not need to have read my past suggestions as the developers either did, or did not, after the community already had their chance to hash it out over rebalance ideas.


    I think reverting the 1 second cool down they added to heal would benefit clerics greatly. As it is not just 1 second that got added. As in a previous rebalance they did I want to say in 2009 or 2010 where they also had increased heal cool down by 1 second this increased unintentionally the actual time it takes for the heal to connect to the target. So when you hit heal, there is a longer delay before the skill now heals the target (be it yourself or another). This effect can be seen in other skills such as when a fighter stuns a target but still ends up dead because the stun is delayed in taking effect. The original cool down of heal help mitigate this, but this is something I do not have video proof of the before and afters. Not to mention it is the clerics main skill and really should not have been nerfed when it was never overpowered to begin with.


    I actually enjoy giving buffs to people that last 70 + minutes and would not mind if it was extended even more. Most passives that get suggested I tend not to like because there really isn't a huge gap besides clerics own soloing capabilities for quests and leveling.

  • Mage

    -Fire Ball cast time from 0.9 to 0.5.
    -Ice Blast cast time from 0.6 to 0.5.

    DPS wise MB does win, but FB still does more damage, placing it within a rotation isn't terrible.

    Again, this argument makes no sense. Why should I use a skill that deals slightly bit more damage, but with much more cooldown and cast time and end up losing a lot of DPS in return, when simple Magic Blast spamming lets me outDPS Fire Ball in the rotation with utter ease and I don’t have to worry about using other skills? Fire Ball’s usage has to be worth it, else nobody will ever use it. Ice Blast, Lightning Blast and even the bolt skills have something that makes them viable to use, such as slow from Ice Blast, Evasion debuff and damage boost from Lightning Blast, damage boost from Magic Missile, Fire Bolt and Lightning Bolt and damage boost and safer but less beneficial slow from Ice Bolt (yeah, that’s right, Bolt skills are a good damage boost and actually lead to better DPS when combined with MB in rotation than simply spamming MB for damage as long as you can fire them safely and quickly). So yes, placing current and even your proposed Fire Ball in rotation is very terrible.

    -Electronic Shock cast time from 2.0 to 1.0.

    Not all AOEs need to nuke and debuff and push the boundaries of current damage abilities. Use this when others on CD.

    There’s absolutely zero need for me to use this skill as a damage boost when I can just use my already strong selection of single target damaging skills. Cast time only slows me down and causes me to lose DPS, and the debuff that cancels out one single skill usage is not enough to convince me into taking this risk, it’s pretty useless. Reducing cast time from 2s to 1s therefore does nothing for the class, since nobody will still even bother touching the skill. Remove the cast time completely and you might have advanced PvPers consider using it for damage boost.


    Warlock

    ~Lightning chain no longer bounces, instead damages the area around the target. Target casted on gets stunned for 2 seconds. Cast animation halved.

    A spell that bounces bouncing on a single target is a single target spell. The animation is here to stay cause its not leaving. :]

    In a 1v1 situation yes, but not in group PvP where it works as it normally does now. Also again, you’re not gamigo CEO nor any other gamigo employee, so stop talking about how a change is here to stay when you don’t know for sure.


    Cleric

    -Increase Mace damage.

    You missed the point.The point isn't to make it excellent. The people running in Yellow Dragon Horse Heads don't care about appearances.

    Well, if clerics aren’t being made a good solo character choice, then cleric population will just end up suffering like it has been up until now. Who wants to main a class that has to constantly beg for quest help, or spend hours doing repeats which other classes can do within minutes at worst?


    -Awaken has increased healing on self. Cooldown from 12 down to 10.

    Buff Stronger Heal and make it available for both splits. I empower my heals cause they are good. I don't empower Revive cause my party members don't die that much. :]

    Nice, so you’re just taking more from Guardian’s identity rather than making them worth considering, good to know, clearly you don’t care about balance. And as I already said, heals are very bad outside of Heal and maybe Rejuvenate when Heal is cooling. The fact you empowered AoE heals only tells me you sacrificed other useful skills that make a cleric stand out.


    -Skill Cleanup: Stoneskin, Sacrifice combined into one.

    -Skill Cleanup: Endure, Immune combined into one. Stays as Holy Knight only upgrade. Immune effect no longer gets upgraded past 100.

    Funny you bring up not getting to the point. Sacrifice is more use to the party than Stoneskin. Anyways, it wont be 1 minute, I never said that.

    Funny, because it’s true? Sacrifice does nothing for the party. What good is a skill that restores HP and SP once upon cleric’s death, when a cleric shouldn’t be dying often to begin with and with that long as hell cooldown that prevents it even more from being even somewhat useful? Stoneskin on the other hand, while it is not inherently a party buff, benefits the party much more as it allows the cleric to survive noticeably more against mobs dealing physical damage, and its low cd makes it readily available in case Cleric ends up dying.


    -Extinguish level 60 ability.

    I used it at 112 Shellas and noticed the difference. It probably just added up considering there we 15 monsters. Could always buff the effect and damage.

    And I said that simply boosting damage and changing the effect doesn’t do anything meaningful for the class. Reworking the skill is the only way to make it meaningful. Extinguish, if anything, is just extremely distracting and disruptive for the cleric class.


    Holy Knight
    -Wall Passive removed.

    Immune, Stoneskin, Sacrifice, Invigorate's Speed/Heal, and Restore wont be affected by a bonus buff passive, they are set amounts/heals.

    Bad Argument,

    Immune – can have its resistance rates increased by additional x% of the base value of the skill.

    Stoneskin – can have its block rate increased by additional x% of the base value of the skill

    Invigorate/Restore – can have its restored HP per tick increased by additional x% of the base value of the skill, as well as have the same thing happened to the speed buff on Invigorate.

    Sacrifice – can have its HP/SP restoration increased by additional x% of the base value of the skill. This technically caps at 100%, not doing all that much for the skill, but it’s actually really hard to make the skill good with how it works now, but that also doesn’t mean it’s not possible to have it boosted with a passive.

    Invincible – can have its damage absorbtion factor increased by additional x% of the base value of the skill.

    And so on.

    You see where I’m going with this tangent? Reworked Wall to allow for buff effect boost is very possible even for these skills.

    ~New Passive: Dealing damage stacks up to 5 times, granting Defense/Mdefense to self and party members. Buff goes away when not attacking for 10 seconds.

    This HK passive obv wouldn't give massive amounts of stats like you are suggesting, it is going to be a set amount which helps stuff like Trix, Temps, and mostly themselves. You are not forced to use this passive, most tanks don't care for bonus def.

    This skill simply can’t be balanced. If it’s big, it will break the need to have Guardians, and if it’s small, it will do nothing for the knights or clerics. Temps or Tricksters wouldn’t benefit from the smaller variant either, and I don’t see how is any of this necessary in the first place when we have HK enhanced protect and DDF buff in existence, not to mention it does nothing for the support HKs in any shape or form. You didn’t think this passive through, so just stop it.

    -Stronger Heal now also a Holy Knight Passive.

    The heal you should be more worried about is Cross, which I already said previously should be looked into before making this change. Guard heals are still a lot more than HK, and it is why I also said Guards get 3sec and HK keep 4sec Heal.

    I really doubt that anything is going to change about Cross at this point, because empowered Cross is so useful at certain instances for its healing effect accross the expo such as SD (even though this instance is kinda dead, but still), and they already changed the cross while taking into account that the dmg empowerment on it is bugged. Also in the scenario where God’s Benevolence is automatically turned to invig-tier healing skill like intended it wouldn’t make sense to have it have 3s casting time, since it’s too long for too little benefit, and deal additional magic damage, when clerics don’t have anything going for magic attack.

    Guardian

    ~New Passive: Dealing damage stacks up to 5 times, granting Damage/Mdamage to self and party members. Buff goes away when not attacking for 10 seconds.

    I already said maces should get buffed. Not guaranteeing access, just helping them be more desired.

    And I said that this does nothing for Guardians in the slightest, HKs will still be the only ones being guaranteed access. Nobody will want Guardians for a gimmicky passive if that’s all they can do.

    -Heal upgrades past 100 are 3 seconds instead of 4.

    And I elaborated on my buffs. Stronger Heal buff.

    Stronger Heal buff that only kills the Guardian, since it’s becoming shared, and nothing is being done about the other heals being terrible. GJ

    -Trip reduces target damage for 6 seconds on upgrades past 100.

    I am getting the impression that you aren't going to leave me alone on EVA decrease until I say its the definite better choice. Yes those bosses have high EVA, but others have decently low EVA and those will be affected a lot more. DEX buff, mage -EVA, fighter -EVA, lock +aim. Everything adds up, not saying its OP, just saying there are other options than constantly manipulated DEX.

    Of course, because you are not presenting any real arguments why this is actually bad. If other mobs have low enough eva, then Trip reducing their eva further does absolutely nothing of interest, so I don’t see your issue here. Trip will help in a party setting against particularly evasive bosses and will aid hammer users in soloing since hammer aim is trash in conjunction with cleric’s base dex. Everything adds up, in other words teamwork. PvP will not be broken by this idea either as stacking these effects is practically impossible in a group PvP.

  • Archer
    ~Natures Mist Revamp: Poisons for x amount, stacking up to 3 times for 10 seconds. Damage increased. Cooldown unchanged.
    -Piercing Shot and Multi Blood Shot removed.

    Since when did using different skills change the amount of damage you do? Using 3 10k dmg abilities will do 10k dmg 3 times, and using 30k dmg ability 3 times will do 30k dmg 3 times. Don't empower the aoe dmg if you don't want to it's a CHOICE.

    Read my explanation again. 3 separate AoEs beat one combined AoE through speed and being able to use weapon damage more and while also triggering RNG more for poisons to stick. This essentially rewards me for being fast about casting my AoEs, meanwhile this combined AoE kills the smooth flow of this and makes it more braindead whilst sacrificing Ranger’s AoE damage which he shouldn’t be losing. By the time you use the third AoE hybrid you’ve proposed, I will already be on my ninth separate AoE, or sixth if you empower the cooldown on the hybrid, which still results in me winning with separate AoEs. With my 3 AoEs I have no cooldown to worry about, because the first used AoE will finish cooling once I’m done using the third one even without using skill points to empower their cooldown, meanwhile with your combined hybrid I will be constantly forced to wait even with skill points put in cooldown. Your comments just imply that you’re not really aiming for balance, but rather further the destruction of the game balance.

    -Natures Speed cooldown reduced from 6 to 4 minutes.
    -Nature Swiftness removed.

    Its other purpose is limited due to the long cd. Decrease Speed to 2 minutes you would just have it up almost constantly, so at that point just make it a 30 minute buff.

    Having it last for 30 minutes is not the same as keeping the cooldown lower. With lower cooldown you can recast the skill much faster, which is beneficial in case you get dispelled or die, meanwhile 30 minute duration makes it better only for PvE against single targets and in case you never die. At this point it’s much better to make it a toggle skill like Glad’s HoF, since that lets you use Nature’s speed as much as you want to whilst also being able to deactivate it at will.

    ~Multi-Shot now sends down a second rain of arrows after 2 seconds on upgrades past 60. (Similar to Nova/Inferno dealing damage multiple times). Ranger only upgrade.

    Having a fighter mob up a crowd and your MultiShot does its high damage TWICE does do something in a party, and not as much in a kiting situation where they are already doing fine in. All that changed is that it does damage twice.

    No, it still does nothing of interest. Multi Shot isn’t much stronger than the AoE poisons. Spamming AoE poisons will still give me a greater damage output, because I won’t have an actual cooldown with them, I will be much faster and I will have poisons on my side. Multishot will not increase my damage if all it does is send another wave of simple raw damaging skill that also has longer CD and a long cast time.

    Ranger
    -Crossbow attack speed changed from 1.4 to 1.3.

    Oh no .1 attack speed. This isn't going to magically fix Ranger DPS. You can't fix the entire game balance in a single patch IN ANY GAME I hope you know that. Single target damage is SS strength, yes, but that doesn't mean Rangers should SUCK at it.

    Ranger’s single target damage doesn’t suck, they can still use Power Shot, Aimed Shot and ST poisons, Dazing Arrow and Bomb Arrow to negate AS issues whilst taking advantage of their superior damage, and also fact is that Rangers can still use Korin Set and Nature’s Speed to make themselves faster, just like Sharpshooters. Improving their AS by additional 0.1 is not going to do all that much for them. I am fine with the buff btw, but I don’t like the reasoning that this is to make them compete against glad damage, because rangers can’t compete with that.

    -Bomb Arrow instantly deals damage.

    Can't be sure if the game's code even realizes how a buff got there. Basically if a player has Endure buff, the game doesn't know who put that buff there.

    Epic joke. Deeper and Release keeps track of who uses the skill Deeper. You can’t remove an arrow from an entity using your Release if someone else marked it first, unless you specifically overwrite the arrow with your own Deeper usage. So yeah, the game supports these mechanics.

    Sharp Shooter
    ~New Passive: Standing still for 2/4/6 seconds converts 10%/20%/30% of the damage to true damage.

    Ignoring armor does more damage than not ignoring armor. Math.

    Obviously you haven’t read my suggestion then, because my suggestion takes advantage of both pure and raw damage.

    Trickster

    -Force Slash changed to knockup instead of knockback.

    Devastate does it, could be a knockup but it's a stun.

    Devastate doesn’t imply a knockup either. Slamming the ground doesn’t make you fly in the air.

    Reaper
    -Passive bonus damage changed to true damage.

    Nothing is more broken than a Gladiator. We aren't talking about Specs here, but my Spec passive does additional damage on their next attack not auto attack.

    Then why does your suggestion say that the next basic attack used by Spec triggered by polished Shame will not miss and will deal additional damage? Basic attack doesn’t imply a skill, but an AA.

    -Sneak Attack casting distance increased to 9.0m.

    Pulling an enemy every 2 minutes, with a small ranged jump to complement it. Guess I broke fbz with this suggestion. DW to help alleviate the stress, I scratched it out.

    Another bad argument. You can empower Binding Blow to make it a 1 minute CD skill, which makes it on par with base Dash, which is a decent gap closer for Glads. I’m glad you have realized how bad the idea is to make Sneak Attack overpowered though.

    Spectre
    -Shame Passive removed.
    ~New Passive: Pressure: Missing or dodging an attack will cause your next basic attack to not miss and deal an additional xxxx-xxxx bonus damage.

    I said that your suggestion is what I said for reaper, except for crits. Specs damage are straight raw damage so armor pierce doesn't make sense

    No, my suggestion is about partial defense ignore, your is about pure damage. Very different concepts. Spec is about dealing maximum damage only, contrary to Reaper’s focus on CC, making the partial defense ignore fit in perfectly. Specs need a massive damage boost to make them undisputed best single target damage dealers. Neither Glads or Reapers deserve this position since they can easily make up for not having the best ST damage in different parts of the game.


    Templar

    -New Passive: Crusader basic attacks deal an additional xxxx-xxxx magic damage.

    OR

    ~New Passive: Crusader basic attacks deal an additional 20% damage based off their magic damage.

    It's not a basic passive cause its not just giving them mdmg. It's adding bonus mdmg to their auto attacks, no other class does that.

    I’m just explaining why it’s not wrong to have a passive which empowers all aspects of the class at once.

    Fighter

    -Bone Slicer, Fatal Slash Knight only upgrade.

    It will be good, but wouldn't be healthy for the Fiesta player base. If you are upset about potentially having a level 37 2% block rate ability be level 60 now, imagine removing 2 whole abilities from Gladiators? That is why I am not suggesting it.

    You’re comparing apples to oranges. Nerfing a skill on a subpar class would cause an outrage, because we’re talking about a class that needs buffs and not nerfs. Glads are all around broken with all their supplements, multipliers and whatnot. Taking away slash and bone slicer wouldn’t stop them from being broken.

    -Whirlwind damage increased.

    The threat of having the increased damage is there, hence the crowd control. It's not as much crowd control as a knockup, but it's there. With the small nerfs to other Glad damages, a small nerf to a 1 min ability won't hurt. Glads would still be needing more nerfs after these changes.

    If it’s about aggro only, just give it an increased threat generation, but I don’t see why that is necessary either. Fighters really don’t need more AoE damage, especially when Glad can just spam it if he puts on multiple sets to reduce CD by 90%. Knight doesn’t need this either since like I said he can just spam Demo, Deva, Earth Strike and AoE mocks and even switch to 2H for more dmg. Leave the Aoe damage department to different classes that actually specialize in it.

    Knight
    -Slice and Dice damage increased.
    -Earth Strike damage increased.

    They are relevant as tanks, but not wanted cause a Glad can tank AND do damage. Buffing this dmg wont let them beat Glad dmg at all.

    You basically contradicted yourself. How can they be relevant as tanks if glads can do the same whilst dealing much more damage, outclassing knights in the process? So you just proved my point knights are not needed as tanks, thus irrelevant. Just reduce Glad’s defenses or buff bosses in damage to be untankable except for shield classes and that’s all you need to make Knights relevant as tanks. Buffing knight dmg will make knights more broken at PvP where they already are very excellent, so you’re not making any sense.

    ~Discharge now turned into a pull ability, rooting the target for 1 second. Can stay as the same animation, but repeated backwards as if pulling the sword back by a chain.

    The root doesn't let a target run away instantly in PvP. Purge is a ranged aggro pull as well, and so is Reaper pull. Saying this grabs a mobs aggro from a distance is not enough to justify not changing it.

    If I get pulled by this ability in PvP, I will just counter the knight with my own CC and make their effort pointless, it’s that simple. Troll roots are troll roots. Purge and Reaper pulls are not threat elevating skills, Discharge is. Big difference. Bosses are immune to these kind of troll effects to begin with, so this change would make Discharge useless vs bosses whereas current Discharge is useful for actually pulling them.

  • They have reached an agreement ladies and gentlemen. Well done

    imagine that all their effort is wasted and non of this is considered or implemented. That would be pretty funny

    What made you think it was over? lol
    I know most and probably all of this is gonna go wasted in Gamigo, but it is always fun to spread the ideas.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    133 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    115 Holy Knight
    109 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)
    105 Wizard

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • I'm Blue.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    133 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    115 Holy Knight
    109 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)
    105 Wizard

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    133 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    115 Holy Knight
    109 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)
    105 Wizard

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • Mage

    -Fire Ball cast time from 0.9 to 0.5.
    -Ice Blast cast time from 0.6 to 0.5.

    Placing other skills on rotation isn't terrible, and if my proposed change proves to not work, other things can be done. But you cant be sure in one patch for everything to work.
    You’re not even explaining why it isn’t terrible, you’re just throwing empty assumptions, meanwhile I explained perfectly why placing Fire Ball in its current form just isn’t worth it and leads only to a DPS loss.


    -Electronic Shock cast time from 2.0 to 1.0.

    NO I'm talking about aoe rotation. If you use this in your single target rotation you are trolling.

    How the hell did you reach the conclusion this skill is good as a DPS boosting skill for AoE damage? 1. You still have to pick your target before using the skill. 2. Skill has long cooldown. 3. Skill deals low damage 4. Skill has near useless effect. I don’t need this skill for AoE damage at all when I can spam Magic Burst for much more AoE damage, or simply use Frost Nova and Inferno when I find myself in a safe position. You justifying casting time on Electronic Shock makes me laugh, there’s just no good argument to keep cast time on this useless skill, especially since the debuff it causes is a near useless gimmick.


    Cleric

    -Increase Mace damage.

    If you just avoid swapping all the weps and abilities and buff their damage the way it should be, clerics would be fine.

    No, they wouldn’t. Simply unbalancing Maces in comparison to Hammers will not magically save the class. You’re just trying to turn fiesta into an even more unbalanced mess. I also didn’t really swap anything drastic, I only swapped weapons and some attacking skills since they’re weapon-locked.

    -Awaken has increased healing on self. Cooldown from 12 down to 10.

    "clearly you don’t care about balance" I do, that's why I gave Guard the dmg boost passive (which I will revisit) instead of HK and gave them the lower cd heal. But you keep insisting both get the 3sec.

    Obviously, because this is the only real way for cleric’s single target heals to be saved. I would gladly take 3k HP heals with 3s base CD over slightly increased amount but with 4s base CD. I don’t however see what good is it to take away Guard’s identity, that sounds like the real unbalancing factor here.

    -Skill Cleanup: Stoneskin, Sacrifice combined into one.

    -Skill Cleanup: Endure, Immune combined into one. Stays as Holy Knight only upgrade. Immune effect no longer gets upgraded past 100.

    The point of Sacrifice isn't there so you can use it and commit. lol It is there for the off chance that you happen to die and give a last burst of heal to your team. Make it 5 sec.

    So you basically proved that Sacrifice is just an annoying gimmick with long cooldown that makes it largelly impractical, good.

    -Extinguish level 60 ability.

    If a cleric is mobbing, even if its chip damage, they will heavily appreciate a decently low cd AOE.

    No, they will appreciate an AoE that actually does something worth mentioning and isn’t just a useless rip-off of an archer’s AoE. Clerics would need glad’s damage to make spammable current Extinguish work properly for killing, but that would be unbalancing the class itself. Only proves this skill needs a good rework.

    Holy Knight
    -Wall Passive removed.

    Bad Argument,

    Immune – It is a set amount. Plus I'm here saying to avoid inflating resistances, how are you going to tell me to buff it. – Excuses. Endure is also a set amount of HP and SP increase, and yet 65/75/85 sets empower its effect just perfectly. Proves this is completely doable.

    Stoneskin – It is a set amount. Refer to Immune comment

    Invigorate/Restore – The restore is a heal and the movespeed is a set %. Refer to Immune comment

    Sacrifice – Sacrifice is a set amount of Heal. Refer to Immune comment

    Invincible – can have its damage absorbtion factor increased by additional x% of the base value of the skill. This one prob would work.

    And so on.

    Now assuming they work on your mentioned skills, they wont do much at all to be considered worth it.

    Lolwhat? Endure buff would be epic, Immune buff would be epic, Invincible buff would be epic, Stoneskin buff would be epic, HoT buffs would be epic, protect and resist getting buffed would also be nice. Pretty much every buff would benefit from it.

    ~New Passive: Dealing damage stacks up to 5 times, granting Defense/Mdefense to self and party members. Buff goes away when not attacking for 10 seconds.

    It is perfectly well thought out. HK benefit empowering their team as they don't need to heal as much, since they take less damage. A smaller def boost is more effective on lower defense classes than higher defense classes, cause they don't need it as much. It wouldn't be a massive boost, but it will be enough to make a difference and allow HK to worry less about their team but not get rid of the worry entirely.

    This isn’t perfectly well thought out at all lmao, this does nothing to solidify the HK class. Smaller def boost does nothing for classes like Templars and Tricksters, who are pretty high defense classes due to them being melee. This would essentially only be somewhat good to Archers and Mages, who are nowhere near benefitting from this skill due to them being ranged and thus being less threatened by default. This skill does nothing to build up HK’s momentum, it’s completely useless, especially so to support HKs who don’t bash and cannot use this passive. You’re essentially nerfing HKs and trying to force them to go P2W like every other class in the game. Saying that being unable to use this passive by not bashing is not going to hurt me is a very bad argument, because I’m losing an entire passive over it. Even current Wall is better than this nonsense.

    -Stronger Heal now also a Holy Knight Passive.

    As a wise man once said, "you’re not gamigo CEO nor any other gamigo employee, so stop talking about how a change is here to stay when you don’t know for sure". Cross still can be changed.

    You’re grasping at straws with this comment, because I have never said that bugged Cross is here to stay for sure. I only said that I doubt it’s getting changed considering the fact Gamigo rebalanced the skill around its bugged healing factor.

    Guardian

    ~New Passive: Dealing damage stacks up to 5 times, granting Damage/Mdamage to self and party members. Buff goes away when not attacking for 10 seconds.

    Encouraging Guard usage, not guaranteeing it.

    Except this does nothing to encourage Guard usage. Who the hell would want to invite a superior healer to go bash in the front? Do you realize just how mind-numbingly stupid this sounds?

    -Heal upgrades past 100 are 3 seconds instead of 4.

    Guardian is getting lower cd Heal.

    Which is a bad idea. Heals were never broken to begin with, so nerfing them for one class makes complete zero sense.

    -Trip reduces target damage for 6 seconds on upgrades past 100.

    If you don't like my argument then i guess its not a real argument OK.

    Your „argument“ is basically a non-point, because you’re essentially arguing against teamwork rather than the effect itself. It’s bad for balance if a single class reduces evasion by too much, but it’s not bad if several different classes have to team up to reduce evasion by the same amount.