Rebalancing + Revamping Suggestions

  • You're right my mistake, I originally thought you meant remove the current effect to make it like violence not add the attack speed increase to the skill... slimeembarrassed re-read it again sorry about that... That's fine, I understand xd


    That's the biggest problem with glads, in addition to the other issues they also benefit the most from SC compared to other classes, SC sales may need to take a big short term hit in order to get true class balance in my opinion. Tbh that's still a scary thing to do.. People are still are mad about -1 second on heal, imagine replacing Glad passive. /:

    Edit: I wanted to say that a good start to fixing Glad passive would be to edit the numbers and make them clearer to us, like naming the bonus it gives in the description.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    130 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    114 Holy Knight (115 Goal)
    105 Wizard
    98 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • Markus by suggesting a passive to be tied to attacking is forcing you to attack to use it. Why else have the passive at all. Might as well save the gold and not buy the upgrades if you want to be a support cleric (and I do attack during raids for bash debuff). I am speaking for the purpose of what a cleric is which is to support a party, not to be a front liner attacking things every ten seconds. Its distracting from their main role.


    Yawn I do not really think I was being sassy at all :?:_:?: I was speaking how I hate all the cleric ideas, and from my brief overview of the other classes, the listed suggestions were not needed in my opinion, though I did not read them thoroughly as people that people main those classes would be more into breaking down the ideas on why they were bad. I did leave it open to say others might want them.

  • Markus by suggesting a passive to be tied to attacking is forcing you to attack to use it. Why else have the passive at all. Might as well save the gold and not buy the upgrades if you want to be a support cleric (and I do attack during raids for bash debuff). I am speaking for the purpose of what a cleric is which is to support a party, not to be a front liner attacking things every ten seconds. Its distracting from their main role.

    My opinion on a Cleric's power currently in a party is extremely good already as a support character. They don't really need changes and what I'm suggesting are changes to help them control the battlefield more directly.

    Currently they are just a walking buff/heal stick carrying a shield for no reason other than the occasional attack they receive. The reason I'm suggesting this type of secondary passive is so one, it doesn't hurt the full on healer players' play style and two, to encourage a different more interactive play style for those who wish for it.

    I believe Yawn was only suggesting that you shouldn't assume the answer for everybody else by giving a hard no, including those classes that you don't play. I would also prefer a suggestion considering the classes DO need changes but from your answer it seems you think they are all fine?

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    130 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    114 Holy Knight (115 Goal)
    105 Wizard
    98 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • I have to thank you for your explanations. They actually make your points very reasonable and I now agree with most of them.


    I'd still give the 3 sec heal back to both classes though, as long as they fix the HK's cross. It's not supposed to heal that much and if they'd finally reduce its healrate or disable empowerment of it then the HK would actually really need the 3 sec heal again without putting the Guard at disadvantage. The problem imho is just that the current situation is wholly based on a bug. It would change everything for the cleric if they just fixed that cross...

    »It's the nature of time that the old ways must give in.«

    rYUKWHa.gif

    Alle Wege führ'n nach Rom und irgendwann zurück nach Köln.

  • I have to thank you for your explanations. They actually make your points very reasonable and I now agree with most of them.


    I'd still give the 3 sec heal back to both classes though, as long as they fix the HK's cross. It's not supposed to heal that much and if they'd finally reduce its healrate or disable empowerment of it then the HK would actually really need the 3 sec heal again without putting the Guard at disadvantage. The problem imho is just that the current situation is wholly based on a bug. It would change everything for the cleric if they just fixed that cross...

    Thanks! I really tried to not negatively affect any class. except glad

    Sorry but I don't know why but my messages get so long so fast. /:
    I can see still wanting the 3sec on HK as well, that'd also make my Stronger Heal on HK a bit harder to implement balance-wise. Bringing back 3sec Heal would bring back versatility and allow clerics to do what they really want to do, Heal.

    I will explain my stance on the 4 second Heal:
    I personally prefer it as it punishes the Clerics who stand still and spam 1. I dislike the idea that a Cleric is getting the most out of their kit out of 1 ability without drawbacks. I see Clerics half the time spamming Heal on full health targets while the target is still under a 8 second stun. These Clerics are healing constantly, rather than reactively. Now those same Clerics are always slow to react to situations such as their mage or even themselves almost dying.


    Now that doesn't mean that im entirely against 3sec Heal, I just would prefer 4sec. Keeping 4sec Heal for HK will open up more room for them to use their other abilities and not let Heal be the best option almost every time. This also opens up room for them to use Bash and reduce armor.


    Cross
    Currently Cross is SO powerful that HK are placing them and going melee thanks to Bash debuff. I thought about it for a bit, and I would say:

    -Lower duration to 20-25sec
    -Increase cooldown to 40-60sec
    -Remove damage empower
    -Remove damage altogether
    -Fix heal amount accordingly

    I wouldn't buff damage empower as it would be another major strength over Guard. If my Stronger Heal for HK suggestion would be implemented, that bonus % would be fine to empower the heal on Cross just enough. I would also probably go for a less harsher combination of those values so it wouldn't be a massive nerf outright.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    130 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    114 Holy Knight (115 Goal)
    105 Wizard
    98 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • Mage

    -Fire Ball cast time from 0.9 to 0.5.

    -Ice Blast cast time from 0.6 to 0.5.

    -Electronic Shock cast time from 2.0 to 1.0.

    I would rather mages get their bolt skills buffed since they are so weak compared to other classes pre-60

    Wizard

    ~Skeletons that spawn cast a weak version of mock to take aggro from them.

    Wizards are one of the best classes in the game, This just makes their kit overkill. The one weakness of a mage is that they are squishy and giving them meat shields is way too much.

    Warlock

    ~Lightning chain no longer bounces, instead damages the area around the target. Target casted on gets stunned for 2 seconds. Cast animation halved.

    This just seems unnecessary.


    Cleric

    -Increase Mace damage.

    I would rather see mace attack speed increase since they are supposed to be a dps weapon. It would also help HKs stack the new passive you mentioned. The real buff maces need is for bleed to make you bleed like it was supposed to do.

    -Awaken has increased healing on self. Cooldown from 12 down to 10.

    This is not needed, Clerics have so many ways to heal they hardly need more healing on them selves. Clerics can use potions and hp stones too, I have never had a self healing issue as a cleric.

    -Awaken Casting Distance info fixed. (Says 1.5m)

    -Skill Cleanup: Stoneskin, Sacrifice combined into one.

    -Skill Cleanup: Endure, Immune combined into one. Stays as Holy Knight only upgrade. Immune effect no longer gets upgraded past 100.

    -Benediction cooldown from 1:20 minutes to 30 seconds, increase damage.

    -Extinguish level 60 ability. Also slows for 10% for 3 seconds on upgrades past 100.

    The slow would be extremely annoying, The aoe at level 60 would be nice, but clerics are pretty strong overall. I don't know if they really need more buffs.

    Holy Knight

    -Wall Passive removed.

    The wall passive is really nice for buffing other people and it makes them better at what they specialize in: buffing.

    ~New Passive: Dealing damage stacks up to 5 times, granting Defense/Mdefense to self and party members. Buff goes away when not attacking for 10 seconds.

    My only qualm is the HKs should be getting dmg/mdmg instead of defense since they are the more aggressive cleric. Also have it that if they take damage the buff is also happens. HKs should be battle buffing clerics.

    -Stronger Heal now also a Holy Knight Passive.

    No way. Stronger heal is what makes the heals shared between HK and Guards different. Otherwise you could get rid of the passive and make the skill stronger.

    -Bash decreased SP consumption.

    I don't think this is needed, sp consumption has never been an issue for me as a cleric

    Guardian

    ~New Passive: Dealing damage stacks up to 5 times, granting Damage/Mdamage to self and party members. Buff goes away when not attacking for 10 seconds.

    Guards, being the defensive class of the two should grant the party more def/mdef when they use the passive. I don't really like this passive on guards overall

    -Heal upgrades past 100 are 3 seconds instead of 4.

    No, Otherwise you just end up spamming it, no player skill is needed and your other skills become redundant. Maybe a 0.1s cd buff, but that is it.

    -Trip reduces target damage for 6 seconds on upgrades past 100.

    I would rather Trip does what is was supposed to do and stun for 2 seconds.

    -Mighty Punch knocks enemy backwards on upgrades past 100.

    On the fence here, one it would be useful keeping mobs off you, but it would also be annoying when solo killing.


    Not going to comment on archers since I have not played them since their buffs


    Trickster

    -Skill cleanup: Styptic, Resilience, Detoxify combined into one skill.

    I agree here or make them passives

    -Skill cleanup: Exhaustion, Consume combined into one skill.

    This seems a little bit too strong at pvp

    -Skill cleanup: Conflagration, Diminish removed.

    Conflagration and Diminish hardly work.

    -Force Slash changed to knockup instead of knockback.

    This is the one buff tricksters need , their aoe is so annoying, it ruins everyone else when mobbing up


    Reaper

    -Passive bonus damage changed to true damage.

    -Sneak Attack casting distance increased to 9.0m.

    Spectre

    -Shame Passive removed.

    ~New Passive: Pressure: Missing or dodging an attack will cause your next basic attack to not miss and deal an additional xxxx-xxxx bonus damage.

    This would be a good change, but the next attack not missing is a little op

    -Lethal Assault cooldown from 4 minutes to 1:30 minutes.

    As much as I would like this, I don't think it is necessary

    -Blade of the Sky HP/SP consumption reduced by 10%.

    This is not needs, such a powerful skill is worth the cost.


    Templar

    -Bug Fix: Animations being canceled, placing skill on cooldown and doing no damage fix. Ex: Ascension, Light Explosion.

    -New Passive: Crusader basic attacks deal an additional xxxx-xxxx magic damage.

    OR

    ~New Passive: Crusader basic attacks deal an additional 20% damage based off their magic damage.

    Yes. crusaders clunky animations and all the canceling makes them frustrating to play. The new passive is much needed considering Templar passives stop at 120 for no good reason and it would allow int and str based Templars to differentiate from one another.

  • I'm going to cut this quote shorter to be a bit more organized. My answers will be in blue within your quote. I already explained some of these before but I can understand there has been a lot of text to read. xd I'll just repeat those few.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    130 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    114 Holy Knight (115 Goal)
    105 Wizard
    98 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • This is the only game I have come across where people fight to stay as a support class. I seen other games where healers can dps also. Unfortunately it will never happen on here. Then people wonder why people quit the game. I would create a cleric if they had better dps with in a heartbeat.

  • Of course you would create a cleric in a heartbeat.


    Imagine a tanky class with high DPS? ...Very broken.

    Not to mention their insane healing ability.


    Having no disables for PvP is not really an argument with such class. That's hardly a sacrifice since PvE is the main aspect of the game.



    Also, there is so much feedback on rebalance that is completely ignored.

    Just being real. It's a waste of time to give more at this point.

  • Of course you would create a cleric in a heartbeat.


    Imagine a tanky class with high DPS? ...Very broken.

    Not to mention their insane healing ability.

    Since mentioning other games is not allowed, There's one that has made it work, and it's 0 pay 2 win. You only have to buy the expansion pack and your done. This game can have better potential if they decided to revamp it

  • I considered it a lot while thinking about bumping up a Cleric's DPS, and they really wont be that good of a DPS at all, especially if you buff them the right way.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    130 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    114 Holy Knight (115 Goal)
    105 Wizard
    98 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • Mage

    -Fire Ball cast time from 0.9 to 0.5. Unnecessary, since the skill itself can be used while moving. If anything, this skill needs a lot more damage to make its casting worthwhile.

    -Ice Blast cast time from 0.6 to 0.5.
    Unnecessary, since the skill itself can be used while moving.

    -Electronic Shock cast time from 2.0 to 1.0.
    Remove the cast time from it completely instead. The skill is utterly useless as of now.


    Warlock

    ~Lightning chain no longer bounces, instead damages the area around the target. Target casted on gets stunned for 2 seconds. Cast animation halved.
    Seems unnecessary. Warlocks already have a lot of control effects that make their lives much easier. They can fear, they can sleep, they can freeze, they can stifle, they can slow, and if they equip Iry's Blessing set, then they can slow even more or throw targets in the air with much greater ease. Current Lightning Chain is fine.


    Cleric

    -Increase Mace damage.
    Unnecessary if they just switch Mace from Hammer so that HKs get Hammers and Guardians get Maces, and have their weapon requirements on their skills reversed, or if HKs get the option to switch to a 2H weapon for much more damage such as 2H axes or something at the expense of unequipping shields, but I'd prefer the former since it's much simpler to implement and is an overall more realistic choice.

    -Awaken has increased healing on self. Cooldown from 12 down to 10.
    Well, even if this skill got buffed in healing and went from 12s cooldown to 10s, or even better, back to its original cooldown of 9s, I still wouldn't be sold on this skill. I would much rather see Heal cd go back from 4s to 3s, since Heal is overall the most versatile healing skill in the game and every other skill is just straight pathetic. Having 4s Heals just ruins the smooth transitions between heals and forces me to go through convoluted strategies to keep a target alive, which may or may not be good, since overall it still forces people to use more potions/Q stones to stay alive than with pre-nerf heals. Either that, or we need to reduce Rejuvenate's CD by a lot so that it becomes an actual viable healing move instead of lesser Heal.

    -Awaken Casting Distance info fixed. (Says 1.5m)
    Listing actual distances is not bad, multiple skills need to have this fixed, so why not I guess.

    -Skill Cleanup: Stoneskin, Sacrifice combined into one.
    Unnecessary, Stoneskin is actually a very useful ability compared to Sacrifice which is overall extremely situational, also the fact that Stoneskin comes at much earlier level and has low cd, meanwhile Sacrifice comes at lvl 60 with 1 minute cooldown. Merging these two skills would murder Stoneskin, unless Stoneskin's low level requirement and cd takes over.

    -Skill Cleanup: Endure, Immune combined into one. Stays as Holy Knight only upgrade. Immune effect no longer gets upgraded past 100.
    Utter nonsense. Killing off Immune like this just kills the useful effect it has currently. Current Immune is beneficial for poor players in PvE, as well as keeps in check overpowered DoTs at high level PvPs or even in some PvE maps where DoTs actually deal a lot of damage (Cornelius' poison for example).

    -Benediction cooldown from 1:20 minutes to 30 seconds, increase damage. Benediction is an utterly useless skill and simply reducing its cooldown and increasing damage won't save it. Needs an additional effect like inflicting Heal Block for a couple seconds or something to differentiate it from other skills.

    -Extinguish level 60 ability.
    Extinguish is absolutely pathetic. If we reduce the lvl requirements to level 60, nothing groundbreaking for clerics will happen and even those underleveled clerics will likely not even care about the skill. Why? The skill has underwhelming damage, low range, useless effect, and even though it's kitable with relatively low cooldown, it just doesn't help at all. If anything, Extinguish needs a complete rework. I would say that making Extinguish work similar to a mage AoE would overall benefit a cleric much better - basically Extinguish should deal damage in pulses just like Mage AoE, but without the benefits of inflicting OP debuffs and whilst dealing a lot less damage that's also physical, as opposed to magic damage. Will not break clerics, but it will make PvE much more tolerable.


    Holy Knight

    -Wall Passive removed.
    No reason to do that, just rework the skill's effect from empowering duration of buffs to empowering the effects of buffs. I don't care on my HK whether my buffs last for 60 minutes or 75 minutes - both are stupidly long times to begin with, so prolonging them has no purpose. If they improved the buff effects however, I could actually benefit much more from it in actual combat.

    ~New Passive: Dealing damage stacks up to 5 times, granting Defense/Mdefense to self and party members. Buff goes away when not attacking for 10 seconds.
    Completely useless, I wouldn't want this to be my new passive.

    -Stronger Heal now also a Holy Knight Passive.
    No, just no. If we want to buff HK healing in any shape, then we should unlock both Heal and Rejuvenate for HKs, whilst also unlocking Protect and Endure for Guardians to balance things out, and if further needed, buff both Stronger Heal passive and Wall to give more effect/heal increase to make the differences more pronounced and actually meaningful (I mean seriously, what's the point of passives that further improve something if there's no other rival to contest it in the first place?)

    -Bash decreased SP consumption. This is something I can agree with. Bash consumes way too much SP now considering how spammable the skill is. If it wasn't for Cleric's strong alignment to SP in the form of maximum SP increase passive and high SP gains from leveling up, Clerics would struggle with SP as much as fighters and tricksters if not even more, and I think that says something, and before someone tells me to just empower SP consumption on Bash, I won't do it because it's a waste of invaluable points that could go somewhere else and fulfill a much more important purpose overall.


    Guardian

    ~New Passive: Dealing damage stacks up to 5 times, granting Damage/Mdamage to self and party members. Buff goes away when not attacking for 10 seconds.
    Even worse than what was proposed for HKs. We don't really need to encourage Guardians to go into the battle, it's already enough that Guardians are much better battle clerics than HKs in fbz right now, which is just stupid.

    -Heal upgrades past 100 are 3 seconds instead of 4.
    Ooor, you know, how about just every upgrade gets 3s instead of 4s? Increasing the base cd is stupid to begin with.

    -Trip reduces target damage for 6 seconds on upgrades past 100.
    Not helpful. I'd prefer to go with something like eva debuff or a short duration stun, especially in the case Maces switch places with Hammers for both HK and Guardian.

    -Mighty Punch knocks enemy backwards on upgrades past 100.
    Fine, I guess. Either knockback or rollover would be great on Mighty Punch, and I could get even behind the idea of it being local AoE skill incase it becomes a HK skill and they get hammers instead. (Can make Mighty Chop a local AoE skill too in response)

  • Archer

    ~Natures Mist Revamp: Poisons for x amount, stacking up to 3 times for 10 seconds. Damage increased. Cooldown unchanged.
    Ummm, no? Not a good change overall.

    -Piercing Shot and Multi Blood Shot removed.
    Complete nonsense. Having these 2 skills around helps with Archer AoE rotation without the need of spending skill points to have smooth flow between them. Also Archers are known to be poison masters, so it makes no sense for them to lose some of the poison types which they're known for.

    -Natures Speed cooldown reduced from 6 to 4 minutes.
    4 minutes is still far too long, anything beyond 2 minutes is unacceptable to be quite honest, considering the fact that this is Archer's defining skill when it comes to single target damage.

    -Nature Swiftness removed.
    Umm, no? This skill is helpful to have around, I see no reason to remove the skill.

    ~Multi-Shot now sends down a second rain of arrows after 2 seconds on upgrades past 60. (Similar to Nova/Inferno dealing damage multiple times). Ranger only upgrade.
    Incompatible with Ranger's playstyle. Archers run around and kite enemies down, dealing continuous DoT damage, they don't have the time to circle around a specific spot to deal damage from a mage inspired skill that could result in them getting killed. If anything, the skill needs to have its cast time removed to see if it's truly worth using alongside the AoE poisons (In PvE I doubt it, but in PvP I could see it fulfill some purpose).


    Ranger

    -Crossbow attack speed changed from 1.4 to 1.3.
    Don't exactly see why is it necessary, since Rangers aren't the AA masters like Sharpshooters and very rarely have to resort to it in the first place, but I guess why not as long as it doesn't break the balance and if they properly buff weapons with increased attack speed as well (UT, HG, lvl 70 blues).

    -Bomb Arrow instantly deals damage.
    I'd rather have controlled detonation over this, basically another input would let you decide whether to set the bomb off prematurely or not.

    -Skill Cleanup: Bomb Removal removed.
    Well, if Bomb Removal worked on allied targets and if it was usable to remove enemy bombs, I'd say this skill would be good.


    Sharp Shooter

    ~New Passive: Standing still for 2/4/6 seconds converts 10%/20%/30% of the damage to true damage.
    Sounds a little confusing. Are you saying that a portion of damage is converted to a portion of pure damage based on pure damage obtained from STR build? If so, this change would be pretty bad/useless overall for a SS, since SS would effectively only be usable against bosses then and would suck at killing squishier things. I'd want a passive on a SS that would increase the total damage (basically with other multipliers such as pure damage from STR builds included) of autoattacks and single target skills based on his distance from the target, with the maximum multiplier being 25%/30%/35%/40% depending on the tier of the skill. This would emphasize on Sharpshooter's strong focus on shooting targets from afar and improving their single target damage which they seek so badly.

    -Archers Order Passive damage moved from passive to Bow Mastery or Bow base damage. Archers Order removed. (Or the passive can be kept, it shouldn't hurt to have two passives.)
    Archer's Order isn't that good, so I guess this one would be fine.


    Trickster

    -Skill cleanup: Styptic, Resilience, Detoxify combined into one skill. This doesn't work, because Resilience is Spectre Only skill, so this would essentially give Reapers a free access to a skill they shouldn't have in the first place. Styptic and Detoxify alone is debatable if they find the right level for the combination (ideally at Detoxify's introduction phase since Detoxify comes earlier than Styptic).

    -Skill cleanup: Exhaustion, Consume combined into one skill.
    Doesn't work, because Exhaustion is Reaper only skill, and the cooldowns are vastly different here.

    -Skill cleanup: Conflagration, Diminish removed. Removing Diminish is a no, Diminish needs to be reworked, ideally to ignore all curses for its set duration rather than just reducing their effects. Diminish is that one skill that could make specs very interesting to consider and removing it would erase its potential appeal. Conflagaration doesn't need a removal, Flame Slash just needs to have its flame damage improved for it to have any worth, since unlike Venomous Strike, Conflagaration deals no damage and thus cannot be used as a damage boosting move unlike Venomous Strike.

    -Force Slash changed to knockup instead of knockback.
    Doesn't make sense either. Force Slash is the only gap closer for spec in PvP, and changing it in this weird way would make Spec PvP from very hard to completely impossible.


    Reaper

    -Passive bonus damage changed to true damage.
    I don't see the point of this? Reaper passive is one of the best passives in the game, there's no need to change it.

    -Sneak Attack casting distance increased to 9.0m.
    No? Reapers already destroy everyone in PvP as it is, this change would just allow them to use Sneak Attack without the need to use Binding Blow, effectively curing their ranged weakness and making Binding Blow obsolete.


    Spectre

    -Shame Passive removed.

    ~New Passive: Pressure: Missing or dodging an attack will cause your next basic attack to not miss and deal an additional xxxx-xxxx bonus damage.
    This is basically just polished Shame. Autoattacks on tricksters are very weak, so adding a small damage on top of it and letting it to not miss will not do anything for Specs at all, since Specs rely on soul consuming skills to deal burst damage. I'd rather have a passive that ignores 10-25% opponent's defense when using soul consuming skill.

    -Lethal Assault cooldown from 4 minutes to 1:30 minutes.
    Reduce it even more, what's the point of having a long cooldown attacking skill on a class that's supposed to use fast attacks? This skill deals less damage than trickster's AAs even at 7s, and I think that says just how sad this skill is.

    -Blade of the Sky HP/SP consumption reduced by 10%.
    Meh, 70% consumption for both HP and SP is still too high. The skill is very hard to use since you basically need near full HP and SP to use, which we know is very hard to maintain since tricksters are perma low on SP and thus require an extender/SP pot to pull this off, and as a matter of fact, Flame Slash with 2 sets to improve its damage deals more damage than BotS, so there's no real reason to use this skill at all. Reduce the consumption to maybe 50% both and we should see if it's worth using the skill or not. 50% would still be very punishing but not necessarily to the point where you basically just give up on your life.

    Templar

    -Bug Fix: Animations being canceled, placing skill on cooldown and doing no damage fix. Ex: Ascension, Light Explosion.

    -New Passive: Crusader basic attacks deal an additional xxxx-xxxx magic damage.

    OR

    ~New Passive: Crusader basic attacks deal an additional 20% damage based off their magic damage.

    As far as passives go, it's hard to really come up with any passive at all, since Templars are jack of all trades and don't necessarily focus on anything. Could probably go with that idea and give a small boost to every skill they currently have using their passive? Like a small boost to damage skills, small boost to heals, small boost to support skills? Something along those lines


    Fighter

    -Bone Slicer, Fatal Slash Knight only upgrade.
    Won't necessarily make Knights any good. If they make Fatal Slash and Bone Slicer one-hand sword equip skills on top, I can see this saving Knights completely, since they'd have a newfound purpose.

    -Whirlwind damage increased.
    Unnecessary, Glads already have too much AoE damage going on.

    -Flourish cooldown from 2:10 minutes to 50 seconds.
    That's fine, doesn't make any sense to begin with to have the cd on this skill be so long. Could make the same argument for skills like Vampiric Strike, those accurate attacks and so on.

    -Base mana and overall mana consumption improved, can be done in the form of a passive.
    If this really happens, then we need to rework trickster's SP consumption as well.

    Knight

    -Slice and Dice damage increased.
    Unnecessary

    -Earth Strike damage increased.
    Unnecessary

    -Skill Cleanup: Volley removed.
    Why? This skill can be good in the right hands and in the correct situation.

    ~Discharge now turned into a pull ability, rooting the target for 1 second. Can stay as the same animation, but repeated backwards as if pulling the sword back by a chain.
    Unnecessary

    Gladiator

    -Rear Defense passive removed.
    I'm fine with this, and if it doesn't happen, then Knights should get this passive too.

    -Violence removed.
    That's fine, Violence is too overpowered anyways. Gives immunity to sleep and a very significant boost to attack speed, which is supposed to be a glad's weakness. Complete 0 IQ skill.

    -Heat of Fury now also increases attack speed by 0.1.
    Not really necessary, but fine. It's not like Glads will be specially enticed to use this skill for a measly 0.1 AS increase.

  • Heavily modified Joshua's messages to reduce character counts. Read the original. My answers will be in red within your quote.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    130 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    114 Holy Knight (115 Goal)
    105 Wizard
    98 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Markus ().

  • Heavily modified Joshua's messages to reduce character counts. Read the original.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    130 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    114 Holy Knight (115 Goal)
    105 Wizard
    98 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • The really need to revert lightning chain. It's messed up my playing style since the implementation of the current way it is now. Now I have to wait before being able to cast any other skills.

  • The really need to revert lightning chain. It's messed up my playing style since the implementation of the current way it is now. Now I have to wait before being able to cast any other skills.

    Next patch maybe?

  • templars need a new passive definitely. Idk why anyone defends LP increase

    Like imagine glad passive being SP increase or old warlock passive cuz they run out of sp so fast.:D:D:D:D



    New passive:

    Your attacks deal an additional 4% +2% per tier upgrade of your max hp as dmg, to the enemy(ignores dex and cannot crit)


    It will show as a 2nd number when doing dmg, and not be added to the attack you do

    BUFF pre-level 110 CRUSADERS PLOX
    The Crusade

  • My opinion on a Cleric's power currently in a party is extremely good already as a support character. They don't really need changes and what I'm suggesting are changes to help them control the battlefield more directly.

    Currently they are just a walking buff/heal stick carrying a shield for no reason other than the occasional attack they receive. The reason I'm suggesting this type of secondary passive is so one, it doesn't hurt the full on healer players' play style and two, to encourage a different more interactive play style for those who wish for it.

    I believe Yawn was only suggesting that you shouldn't assume the answer for everybody else by giving a hard no, including those classes that you don't play. I would also prefer a suggestion considering the classes DO need changes but from your answer it seems you think they are all fine?

    Your passive idea is only useful to clerics that also want to get up and attack (which clerics attacking is fine, I do this in DDF and when I solo) but my point being is that the passive is not useful to those who are support only clerics. Just because you personally do not like standing there buffing and healing does not mean others do not and they should also be considered when new ideas for passives are suggested for a class that is at its heart supportive. I mean I understand tying attacking to a knights skill even though they are just there to be punching bags with mock, but they are also expected to attack. Clerics though with your suggestion would then be required to fill another role, support, attacker buff, buffer. It really does not benefit either lvl 100 cleric prestige. So your only come back is "it doesn't hurt the full on healer players' play style" idea just proves my point, in that it should benefit the whole class, which is a support class, not benefit one type of style of playing a support class as not entirely support.


    I do believe I left it open that others would possibly be okay with it, so I never did say everyone would say a hard no. Also, I have to point out I did not say I did not PLAY other classes, but I do not MAIN other classes. I left the disputes to those who MAIN the other classes.


    I have put in many many many many suggestions for clerics in the class re-balance and feedback threads. So, if the developers are still focused on rebalancing, they have my suggestions already. I do not need to reiterate it every time someone wants to start a suggestion skills/class change thread. I try to stay with "I like that for these reasons" or "I do not like that for these reasons" because then it is more constructive for any GM/MOD/Developers who read through it, where then maybe there is one good suggestion on page 4 8th post in the page but it is going to be overlooked because its a player run thread that won't get updated with everyone ideas, and might not even be looked at by the development team.


    If I were the development team the best way to judge the suggestion of a thread is to read through the first discussion and then get a general gist of the communities feedback, is it negative, is it positive. Then look into the possibilities of the suggestion. I would not however, be combing through it to find every single players suggestions, because you will not be able to gauge correctly the communities feedbacks as it is not the original suggestion of the thread so will possibly be overlooked by otherwise concerned players.

  • My idea for a passive is exactly what you said, something for people who want to hit things. I don't see any issue currently with support Clerics honestly. They are performing pretty well and that is why I didn't suggest much at all for them. They aren't "required" to fill no other role, it's all situational.

    My bad for assuming you don't play the other classes at all, but you also assumed that I prefer being a melee fighter Cleric. I very much love playing the support role as well, I was just opening up their usage. I attempted to broaden up Archer usage as well with the Multi-Shot changes in my post. Using DDF as an example, a Cleric might want to be more supporish at the Wind boss but they can open up at the Fire boss and attack that one instead as it's not as chaotic.

    Sorry I didn't read your previous suggestions years ago or I just don't remember them, but I think you should have saved up some shortened ideas you truly think are necessary to say. Currently the only Cleric idea I see most of the Cleric players come here or anywhere for is because of their +1 second heal which I don't think is necessary to even revert. They have plenty of abilities that can cover up that time frame.


    I have not seen a single new passive suggestion for Clerics other than the one previously that said my passive suggestion can activate through heals. Please don't say stronger buffs/heals... That's a waste of a passive, that "passive" can be directly put into the buffs and would have the same effect. Stronger Heal on HK/Guard benefit both of them, with it being a smaller effect on HK to help them keep up with the healing but still being a powerful effect on Guard as they get to keep Healing upgrades.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    130 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    114 Holy Knight (115 Goal)
    105 Wizard
    98 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)