Rebalancing + Revamping Suggestions

  • I been away from the game for a while and I'm noticing a lot of changes are being done to the classes and I wanted to add what I think should still be changed for each class. Most of these changes should be simple to apply, but the more complicated changes will be marked with a ~. Ask below if you want me to explain my reasoning to any of these or to start discussion. Note some of the changes below should be tied in together.


    Mage
    -Fire Ball cast time from 0.9 to 0.5.
    -Ice Blast cast time from 0.6 to 0.5.
    -Electronic Shock cast time from 2.0 to 1.0.
    ~Stifle effect changed to reduce target healing by half.

    Wizard
    ~Skeletons that spawn cast a weak version of mock to take aggro from them.

    Warlock
    ~Lightning chain no longer bounces, instead damages the area around the target. Target casted on gets stunned for 2 seconds. Cast animation halved.


    Cleric
    -Increase Mace damage.
    -Awaken has increased healing on self. Cooldown from 12 down to 10.
    -Awaken Casting Distance info fixed. (Says 1.5m)
    -Skill Cleanup: Stoneskin, Sacrifice combined into one.
    -Skill Cleanup: Endure, Immune combined into one. Stays as Holy Knight only upgrade. Immune effect no longer gets upgraded past 100.
    -Benediction cooldown from 1:20 minutes to 30 seconds, increase damage.
    -Extinguish level 60 ability. Also slows for 10% for 3 seconds on upgrades past 100.

    Holy Knight
    -Wall Passive removed.
    ~New Passive: Dealing damage stacks up to 5 times, granting Defense/Mdefense to self and party members. Buff goes away when not attacking for 10 seconds.
    -Stronger Heal now also a Holy Knight Passive.
    -Bash decreased SP consumption.

    Guardian
    ~New Passive: Dealing damage stacks up to 5 times, granting Damage/Mdamage to self and party members. Buff goes away when not attacking for 10 seconds.
    -Heal upgrades past 100 are 3 seconds instead of 4.
    -Trip reduces target damage for 6 seconds on upgrades past 100.
    -Mighty Punch knocks enemy backwards on upgrades past 100.
    ~Saint's Protection now also places a bubble on selected ally target. Only places one bubble if not targeting an ally. Bubble now increases def/mdef by a %.

    Archer
    ~Natures Mist Revamp: Poisons for x amount, stacking up to 3 times for 10 seconds. Damage increased. Cooldown unchanged.
    -Piercing Shot and Multi Blood Shot removed.
    -Natures Speed cooldown reduced from 6 to 4 minutes.
    -Nature Swiftness removed.
    ~Multi-Shot now sends down a second rain of arrows after 2 seconds on upgrades past 60. (Similar to Nova/Inferno dealing damage multiple times). Ranger only upgrade.

    Ranger
    -Crossbow attack speed changed from 1.4 to 1.3.
    -Bomb Arrow instantly deals damage.
    -Skill Cleanup: Bomb Removal removed.

    Sharp Shooter
    ~New Passive: Standing still for 2/4/6 seconds increase attack speed by 0.1/0.2/0.3 attack damage converts 10%/20%/30% of the damage dealt into true damage.
    -Archers Order Passive damage moved from passive to Bow Mastery or Bow base damage. Archers Order removed. (Or the passive can be kept, it shouldn't hurt to have two passives.)


    Trickster

    -Skill cleanup: Styptic, Resilience, Detoxify combined into one skill.
    -Skill cleanup: Exhaustion, Consume combined into one skill.
    -Skill cleanup: Conflagration, Diminish removed.
    -Force Slash effect changed to knockup instead of knockback.

    Reaper
    -Passive bonus damage changed to true damage.
    -Sneak Attack casting distance increased to 9.0m.

    Spectre
    -Shame Passive removed.
    ~New Passive: Pressure: Missing or dodging an attack will cause your next attack to not miss and deal an additional xxxx-xxxx bonus damage.
    -Lethal Assault cooldown from 4 minutes to 1:30 minutes.
    -Blade of the Sky HP/SP consumption reduced by 10%.


    Templar
    -Bug Fix: Animations being canceled, placing skill on cooldown and doing no damage fix. Ex: Ascension, Light Explosion.
    -New Passive: Crusader basic attacks deal an additional xxxx-xxxx magic damage.
    OR
    ~New Passive: Crusader basic attacks deal an additional 20% damage based off their magic damage. (This is the better and preferred change.)


    Fighter
    -Bone Slicer, Fatal Slash Knight only upgrade.
    -Power Hit Gladiator only upgrade.
    -Whirlwind damage increased.
    -Flourish cooldown from 2:10 minutes to 50 seconds.
    -Base mana and overall mana consumption improved, can be done in the form of a passive.

    Knight
    -Slice and Dice damage increased.
    -Earth Strike damage increased.
    -Skill Cleanup: Volley removed.
    ~Discharge now turned into a pull ability, rooting the target for 1 second. Can stay as the same animation, but repeated backwards as if pulling the sword back by a chain.

    Gladiator
    -Rear Defense passive removed.
    -Violence removed.
    -Heat of Fury now also increases attack speed by 0.1.

    Edit 1: Scratched out Stifle and Power Hit changes.
    Edit 2: Sharp Shooter passive changed to attack damage from attack speed.
    Edit 3: Sharp Shooter passive changed to true damage from attack damage.
    Edit 4: Edited some texts to be less confusing.
    Edit 5: Scratched out Extinguish Slow and Skeleton changes.
    Edit 6: Edited some texts and added Guardian bubble changes.
    Edit 7: Scratched out Nature Swiftness and Sneak Attack changes.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    130 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    114 Holy Knight (115 Goal)
    105 Wizard
    98 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

    The post was edited 14 times, last by Markus ().

  • powerhit upgrades should stay on knight, since they us 2hd swords. Removing rear defense on glads would not be fair, since tricksters and templar's have that passive also. Degro slash should have more of an agro output. Yes I agree volley should be removed or become an agro ability in the form of a taunt. I always pictured knights having an attack speed increase skill for 1hd skills. Possible with faster speed they can continue to hold agro with ease.

  • powerhit upgrades should stay on knight, since they us 2hd swords. Removing rear defense on glads would not be fair, since tricksters and templar's have that passive also. Degro slash should have more of an agro output. Yes I agree volley should be removed or become an agro ability in the form of a taunt. I always pictured knights having an attack speed increase skill for 1hd skills. Possible with faster speed they can continue to hold agro with ease.

    I removed powerhit upgrades as I believed the other buffs they got would be useful enough, but I guess it would be more of a nerf than a buff for 2h. Other option can be to let slicendice work with 2H past 100.

    Rear defense removal on glad adds more risk to their already high defense compared to tricks and crusaders.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    130 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    114 Holy Knight (115 Goal)
    105 Wizard
    98 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • I'm going to be carefull here because my knowledge of some classes is limited.

    But I can say that the mage upgrades are not needed and all bad.

    Won't change anything either.


    I would also like to ask you if you even play all these classes?

    You make a lot of changes based on what?

    You have all classes maxed out?


    It's better to discuss one class we all have the most experience with at once than throw in all classes and throw a bunch of bold assumptions.

    Well that's what I would do because this is no easy stuff.

    For example;


    -Multi-Shot sends down a second rain of arrows after 2 seconds on upgrades past 60. (Similar to Nova/Inferno dealing damage multiple times).


    That's crazy overpowered... Do you have any idea how strong multi shot is right now?

    Nowhere near nova or inferno base dmg.

    Second, why would you even need a skill like that? Archer kiting is different compared to mage kiting...


    Or this one:


    ~Stifle effect changed to reduce target healing by half


    JUST NO

    BIG NOPE

    Do you want mages to get completely wrecked?

  • The classes i play are written in my signature (if on mobile, you can view page on desktop mode), but i play enough to see the classes play around the most. I dont play glad or reaper as much as my other classes, but seeing glads around way more i can suggest more changes for them. I also play enough to hear my friends talk about their moves.


    I can understand not wanting the mage changes, but when i used to play mages had seriously fallen in power, and all they had changed were their damage on single targets but i still see them all purely using magic blast. I wanted to encourage those moves to be used.


    Next what are you saying by stifle? That it will make mages weaker or stronger? Stifle currently slows down very little abilities, but i guess its useful towards archers (thats all i believe). So i can understand not wanting it, but the other change would help vs every class.


    Multi shot was to make it more useful vs mobs. Its not near to nova/inferno in numbers, but its still competing vs two mdmg abilities that deal damage 3 extra times each. True it might need a higher cooldown though, as its only 7 about seconds. My basis for this change is that i still dont see people shouting "need archer or mage" they just want mages. If you still disagree with the change then i can reconsider it, maybe half the second rain damage.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    130 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    114 Holy Knight (115 Goal)
    105 Wizard
    98 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • Stifle is needed to counter a pletora of other skills in pvp.

    Removing it will destroy any pvp skill or equality.


    Other changes wont change anything because these skills on warlock become move cast later on anyway and can be skill animation skipped already.

    They are mostly PVP skills.


    A mage is not an archer and it doesn't have to be either.

    An archer should not have the same aou dmg as a mage since an archer has a ton of single target dmg compared to mages.

    Mages single target dmg is ridiculously low.

    They are also waaay less tanky than an archer.


    I think you should focus on one class at once and tackle their issues instead of making this assumption based list and then changing it after.


    For example;

    Mages at low level are trash, literal trash (under 60)

    Start with fixing that and building up from there

    So what would be beneficial?


    - Increase base dmg of mage single target skills drastically, maybe make low level MB not have such long cast time.

    - Increase DMG on other skills

    - Make mages competitive to archers in aou dmg at low levels

    - maybe even low level versions of frost nova and inferno


    Archers already had insane boosts to the point they completely destroy competition at low levels, not only in single target but also in aou dmg.

    Multi shot completely outclassed magick burst in every single way not only in damage but also in being able to run while casting.

    The skills damage is ridiculous... and it hits 15 target !15!


    These are examples of how to fix from the bottom up.

    Without going into detail to show you some of the complexity we talk about and how you can't make bold assumptions.


    Another issue:


    You can not fix class balance without the introduction of pvp dmg and monster damage on skills.

    - Mage will always be too strong in pvp when uping their single target dmg

    - Archer poison damage will always be to low for monsters but to high for pvp

    - and many other issues


    You have to first fix the big issues before making changes.

  • Can you let me know what else mages use stifle for? Last time i checked, it only increased the cast time of casting moves, such as mage aoes, archer power/aimed shot, cleric invincible etc.

    This post I created was made without 60- in mind. That is a different topic. But while on it, mages have entirely different skills there. Those can be buffed up and pair the cooldown of their high level counterparts. Magic blast can be buffed, and archer abilties can be nerfed for 60-, maybe even 80- if its necessary. As well as making Multishot unkitable below 60.

    I know an archer wouldnt be the same as a mage, as they deal different types of damage. You said yourself archer have strong single target dps, and mages have strong aoe. Why would it be wrong to buff their weak points as being the only ranged mdmg, and pdmg characters. Unless a spectre equivalent for mdmg is released, i dont see why not. If archers only deal strong single target dps, why pick archer over any other of the strong single target dps. Lets give them more power in a party.

    Im going to go ahead and say that poison damage being too high in pvp was a result of Gamigo not knowing how to fix their poisons. Instead of nerfing resistances, they went ahead and buffed the poison damage, making the current mess. Mages being strong in pvp can be a result of fear lasting so long and many people underestimating mdef's power. Notice how everybody looks for end/dex and never spr. Just as everybody enhances their whole set before even looking at enhancing their jewels.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    130 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    114 Holy Knight (115 Goal)
    105 Wizard
    98 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • You can not balance this game in PvE and PvP at the same time, you can try but you will always fail. This game was not intended to be a PvP game, that is why it is called Fiesta. It was intended to bring players together to work together.

  • You can not balance this game in PvE and PvP at the same time:


    You can when you have PVP dmg on a skill and PVE.

    Like any other not skeleton crew and decently run game.

    Saying it's impossible is like gamigo saying the fact that their bogo t2 bundle giving me 20 separate lucky stones is my mistake.

    And that when I accidentaly click a t5 stack because of their error and cant enchant because you need to be level 100 is my mistake.

    Even when that is easy to fix by either making bundles account bound or making stones level neutral.

    Yet they still did not do this even after the 5th report about the same issue occuring to multiple people.

  • If you have PvP damage on every skill for every class the PvE aspect of the game will be way out of balance.

    No, you have both pvp and pve damage on the skills.

    Never played any other games before?

    You seem suprised by the system wich is used in many games...

  • No, I never ever have played other games. What are these other games you talk of? If they are so great why don't you go play them and stop complaining about the one you are playing?

  • No, I never ever have played other games. What are these other games you talk of? If they are so great why don't you go play them and stop complaining about the one you are playing?

    I am explaining a point by referencing a system used by multiple succesfull games that specifically fixes this issue.


    Pretty rude, well i am not going to reply in such pity way as you just did.

  • You are saying if they reprogram the game to be just like some other game it would be possible to balance this game for PvP and PvE at the same time. Technically you are correct, but that is a lot more work and cost than it is worth. This game was not made like other games, and honestly I can not even figure out what games you are referencing. Feel free to PM me and elaborate on what games exactly you are talking about.

  • Quote

    Can you let me know what else mages use stifle for? Last time i checked, it only increased the cast time of casting moves, such as mage aoes, archer power/aimed shot, cleric invincible etc.

    Stifle puts a cast time on every single skill now - like it use to pre nerf.


    I do like your idea of a skill that reduces healing - would it impact the healing on stones ? What other skill could this effect be placed on ?


    Mages other single target skills just need other effects added to them to make then interesting to use. Magic blast provides the damage. Fire bolt, ice bolt etc need to have add utility to entice players to use them - straight up damage/cast time reductions aren’t going to make player use these skills.


    fire ball could have a dot effect which shreds magical protection for each tick of dmg, ice bolt already has a slow linked to it so no need to change this, electronic shock or we it is called maybe a silence & root (or maybe make people unable to heal for a set period of time hinthinthint)?

    These are just some random thoughts.


    edit: a magical protection shred on fire ball could really help warlocks tbh.

  • If thats the case with stifle, then scratch my suggestion! lol didnt realize that, a anti heal for that long would be very powerful together with stifle. In my original suggestion, it reduces all healing so clerics, stones, life tap, etc.

    The thing about adding other effects could work but i dont feel there is a need to just throw a debuff on all the abilities we can. Fireball already does way more damage than magic blast, just need to encourage people to use it. Having a proper rotation of abilities is always more fun too. But play styles exist, so they dont have to use it either, just like the cleric changes suggested, they dont have to use their damage.

    Electronic shock root would overload their cc imo, but the fire ball suggestion to reduce heal can be used on the lightning blast in replacement of the eva, considering they already got an Aim passive. Too many debuffs might leave wizard lacking behind, but im not sure of their current performance too much as of right now so cant say.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    130 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    114 Holy Knight (115 Goal)
    105 Wizard
    98 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)

  • For the standing still SS passive, I would suggest that instead of a passive that increase aspd (since apsd is tricky to balance), it be something that increases the damage dealt by a flat % modifier. *cough* annhilating power *cough*


    The gap from 0.4s attack speed to 0.3s attack speed goes from 2.5 - 3.3 attacks per second. From 0.3 to 0.2 that goes to 5 attacks per second. So better to fiddle with the damage per auto instead.

  • For the standing still SS passive, I would suggest that instead of a passive that increase aspd (since apsd is tricky to balance), it be something that increases the damage dealt by a flat % modifier. *cough* annhilating power *cough*


    The gap from 0.4s attack speed to 0.3s attack speed goes from 2.5 - 3.3 attacks per second. From 0.3 to 0.2 that goes to 5 attacks per second. So better to fiddle with the damage per auto instead.

    Thats true, I can be dangerous. I remember a time where archers sometimes felt they did more damage from only auto attacking. Now that i think about it, they might need their dmg nerfed a bit again if this change would be made. I like your idea more, where standing gives damage instead.

    honeyhap=-=Isya=-=:slimesmile:
    130 Templar (135 Goal)

    120 Spec
    115 Knight
    115 Ranger
    115 Warlock
    115 Crusader

    114 Holy Knight (115 Goal)
    105 Wizard
    98 Sharpshooter (135 Goal)

    101 Glad (105/110 Goal)
    69 Reaper (105/110 Goal)

    80 Guardian (105 Goal)