[General off-topic] Arguments against Gamigo('s decisions) thread

  • -

    I have no idea what you're talking about. I never once said "perms" or implied perms or meant perms and I was talking about the whole player base. Many of the ideas that have been posted by farmers makes sense to me, I'm just explaining my point of view.


    You really don't understand the purpose of a consistent gold sink, of course money will go up every cap raise but I don't think you understand the concept of money traded around from player to player VS. money used from a player on an NPC or Saving VS. spending.


    I didn't say playing 10 minutes a day was my issue...I said it highlights a big issue, the lack of time available to people and making the best use of time, if you farm you'd know there are day that you can get nothing useful and the whole day is basically wasted where the time could be better spent.

    Clearly I wasn't subtle enough for you.


    I agree the lack of new players and lack of traffic at the low levels is a big issue, I don't believe it is the biggest issue. The merge brought players back all at the same level range but it didn't make a s*** bit of difference as underlying problems still didn't keep people from leaving even when they had people they could level with or farm with, just because you're right doesn't mean you understand the "real issues of the game" either.


    Currently leveling: Djarka.


    Current activity: Semi-active.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by The Jumping Lord ().

  • Well, mmorpg's is all about farming and spending time on those. Also, since you can't spend time to farm, you shouldn't have high expectations or better things than someone else that farms. I guess that's the rule. No pain, no gain. Cuz if you go full p2w, then the people that farmed a lot will get bored and eventually leave. You can't skip or haste the farming process, just because you're paying for this...

    While that may be true in some cases, I personally don't farm much but have quite the collection of godly gear for almost every class up to level 115. I enjoy farming when I have the time though. I think spending time or money both benefit the game.

  • Well, mmorpg's is all about farming and spending time on those. Also, since you can't spend time to farm, you shouldn't have high expectations or better things than someone else that farms. I guess that's the rule. No pain, no gain. Cuz if you go full p2w, then the people that farmed a lot will get bored and eventually leave. You can't skip or haste the farming process, just because you're paying for this...

    It's not really about farming..


    Reason why people farmed a lot is because the side content is useless if not non-existence entirely.

    I capped all classes except crusader, I got so many perms for everything with different classes at each lv. I have farmed so much and kept so much including the "trash" drops to the point that I have over 15 different accounts that are used purely as storage.


    Reason for that? No side content..

    Crafting system? Not a thing in this game. Trying to craft pots, scrolls or whatever is just a waste of time since you can get them through other methods like KQs, lucky house and attendance.


    What can you do that doesn't involve leveling up or doing dungeons...?

    Vending? Dancing in towns? That's just being afk.


    KQs, dungeons, and raids aren't side content.. That's the core of any MMO

    You gear up to do raid, you do kq for exp/reward to lvl up so you can do the next dungeon. You spam dungeons to get gear so you can do raid. Circle of activities

    There is nothing in fiesta that breaks that. You can't for example do fishing, gathering, exploring or whatever

  • While that may be true in some cases, I personally don't farm much but have quite the collection of godly gear for almost every class up to level 115. I enjoy farming when I have the time though. I think spending time or money both benefit the game

    Time spent of people should be the only thing that can benefit the game. I personally don't care about how Gamigo could earn money or so, this is not my job to work on. Also, i rarely see ads about fiesta on facebook, on instagram, on youtube. Noone can always be on charge to farm all the things around, and that's why differences exists. Just don't rely on paying real money for your power.

    If gears weren't easily dropped, you wouldn't have like 15 accs for storages. Also you can throw some away. My point of view to this "trash" gears could be , for example, another system were you could recycle things, or turn them into crystals or something else that might be really good for crafting. Also, in my opinion, the best gears should come from craft, with a % of failure while crafting. Weaponsmithing, armorsmithing, handicrafting etc etc etc... The KQ's system is something that i found only in Fiesta, and not in other mmorpgs, and can't say that is good or not. Also it's really bad that you can make scrolls/pots/stones from lucky house,attendance and KQ...cuz that makes the game REALLY easy, and really downgrades the effort put of all these crafters (including myself too). Vending is good, because you just trade things, which exists in every mmorpg and it's fine, and you can do it when you're not active.

  • So what idiot coded client/launcher in a way that it loads GPU to 50% when game itself uses just 15%?

    1) GPU load with game running (I am in game) (look at bottom)
    https://prnt.sc/ppxj69

    2) Just opened client/launcher. GPU fans insta going nuts. CPU use also much higher than with game actually running. Tf? (look at bottom)
    https://prnt.sc/ppxjc9

    -----------------
    You asked for feedback Teddy, dw u gonna get lot of it, properly documented and with proofs.

    One of oldest veterans of game, 2008+.
    Leader of oldest guild alive in game, BandOfTheHawk (2008+).
    Godliest free players alive, 0$ invested.

    Almost full cards collection.
    Author of numerous challenging videos and speed raids, top scorer of many GTs.
    Husband of a goddess.
    Facebook, Youtube, Site.... Find them on your own.

    ---------------

    And what did YOU achieve?

    About time to answer that question.

    -------------
    Discord: Yaseeda#3171

    The post was edited 1 time, last by -Yaseeda- ().

  • Thats all you fiesta doent use GPU its all CPU

  • so apparently the latest patch said they fix the visual bug where mounts without riders would be seen in game and this was the 2nd time they fix it but just after a day of maintenance it seems like the bug is not fixed yet the bug is still there alive n kicking saw few of it today and it also happened to me and as a cleric its really a a bad thing cause i cant heal the person on mount

  • Sephiroth, I am aware.

    Question is, why game launcher loads GPU to 50% when game itself barely uses 15%, this makes no sense. First time i see LAUNCHER being more resources demanding than GAME itself.

    EDIT: PLOTTWIST, what if gamigo added bitcoin miner into launcher , that would explain sudden load of GPU :D

    One of oldest veterans of game, 2008+.
    Leader of oldest guild alive in game, BandOfTheHawk (2008+).
    Godliest free players alive, 0$ invested.

    Almost full cards collection.
    Author of numerous challenging videos and speed raids, top scorer of many GTs.
    Husband of a goddess.
    Facebook, Youtube, Site.... Find them on your own.

    ---------------

    And what did YOU achieve?

    About time to answer that question.

    -------------
    Discord: Yaseeda#3171

    The post was edited 1 time, last by -Yaseeda- ().

  • Teddy, this clearly belongs to this thread, because it expresses my DISPLEASEMENT with DECISIONS of GAMIGO.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Not sure if you guys are aware, but here we go:

    https://massivelyop.com/2019/0…rcheage-lawsuit-drags-on/

    https://mmofallout.com/ipe-upd…ties-agree-on-settlement/
    -------------------

    I suppose many have been curious what happened and why Gamigo and Trion suddenly merged without proper explanation being posted (or maybe it was? I was away from forums for quite a long duration).
    In light of those articles its safe to tell that Gamigo once again decided to pick up kickouts/leftovers of a sued company. Doesnt it remind you situation with Outspark, when bunch of ex-workers (Kobal, for example), have been hired?

    What is bugging me is the fact that it is rather unhealthy tendency. Instead of hiring some high class professionals, gamigo keeps picking up abandoned projects and kickouts, which definitly doesnt lead to increase in quality of services company is providing. Quite sure veterans still remember how "well" Kobal has managed Designer Pack project, and how it ended up in a failure, when players couldnt even get back their cash, only SC refund (SC costs NOTHING to gamigo. Real cash have been taken, deal have been canceled and company still kept cash).

    Quite honestly, such management is probly the reason why serious sites like Glassdoor have very negative reviews and feedback about Gamigo, most of complaints revolves around "incompetent personnel".
    https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/gamigo-Reviews-E705596.htm

    One of oldest veterans of game, 2008+.
    Leader of oldest guild alive in game, BandOfTheHawk (2008+).
    Godliest free players alive, 0$ invested.

    Almost full cards collection.
    Author of numerous challenging videos and speed raids, top scorer of many GTs.
    Husband of a goddess.
    Facebook, Youtube, Site.... Find them on your own.

    ---------------

    And what did YOU achieve?

    About time to answer that question.

    -------------
    Discord: Yaseeda#3171

  • -

    Sorry, been busy for a bit. I don't know why misunderstanding me seems like a current theme here, but let's try it one more time.


    No matter how you look at it, farming is the backbone of the game. Fiesta character progression isn't skill based, it's gear based. For as long as that is the fact, getting better and better gear is majority content. Just because it isn't fun now doesn't mean it couldn't be, just that it's not done right.


    And before you once again argue a point I didn't make; yes, there should be other content that better caters to the variety of players and their varying ideas of enjoyable activities. There should even be other ways to get gear. BUT, in my opinion, BiS gear of each cap should only be achieved through hard work. It should not be buyable, or even tradeable, at all. Yeah it sucks for the blackberry 14's out there, but that's how it is. Reward people who play the game, everything else is shooting yourself in the foot.


    You also shouldn't be able to trade used high-tier gear of any levels. Not even with a premium item. In case it isn't clear: if done right, this would take care of both farmers and mr. moneybags.


    "But not the root cause which is what I'm arguing, again hammers fit a desperate need, it'd be like..."


    When I say hammers are a contributing factor to something, I mean they contribute to exacerbate the effect of those already existing issues mentioned before. They are not to blame for those issues, they just make them worse. I'd draw you a picture with roots, branch and leaves of a plant and hammers being sprinkled on top of the whole thing, but sincerely hope you understand without.


    And for the last time, I have not implied things should just be removed with no adjustments made to the game. Of effing course there should be adjustments. Shouldn't even need saying.


    "Do you disagree? Is farming and being the best more important? Should I be having more fun farming or quit the game if I can't?"


    I don't disagree. I just think it was a failed attempt at a ground-shaking, profound statement, so void of logic it doesn't deserve a thoughtful reply, and as such adds no value to the discussion.


    But yes, quite obviously games (just like any other past-time activity ever) should be mostly about enjoyment - implying I'm of different opinion is a low move. And again just as obviously: just because it isn't enjoyable right now, doesn't mean it couldn't be. Just that it's not done right.

    Adding premium items to bypass boring content fixes nothing and should never be even a temporary option. With the time each company has had to change the course of this game, there is just no excuse for this.

  • Adding premium items to bypass boring content fixes nothing and should never be even a temporary option. With the time each company has had to change the course of this game, there is just no excuse for this.

    ORGANIC REVENUE GROWTH


    SALES SALES SALES SALES until the cow dies ...


    I think by now it is obvious Gamigo does not intend to listen or improve on the game.

    The onlything they spend money on is sales and store stuff...


    What Lycaria says is pretty much all gamigo has been doing.


    It's like scooping water out of a boat full of holes, instead of fixing the boat they just get more buckets and scoop harder...

    So despite the boat floating and looking fine, there comes a time there will be so many holes gamigo does no longer have enough buckets and energy and the boat sinks. With every new hole they make more energy and buckets are needed.


    That's why I always tell to fix core issues instead of adding useless content no one asked for, creating more holes..

  • Lycaria Are you suggesting that all gear should be bind on equip or perhaps even bind on pickup (original LN)? That would be an incredibly unpopular opinion, one that most people would suggest discourages farming in the first place. I for one think it never should have been implemented and that it was just OOS, not even OS, that wanted to make more money without a care for the players.


    (Remember that binding was originally introduced without a way to unbind. Literally everything that bound was NPC food, which isn't good for the economy imo)


    I will agree with you that this game is gear dependent, not skill dependent, but that does not mean that the only way to play the game should be farming, which is what your suggestion would inherently turn into. This would even exacerbate the current Fighter/Glad omnipotence even further since even at lower levels a well-geared Fighter can farm faster than most other classes. Either that, or the entire game would turn into an internal guild point-based system where you have to attend so many farming sessions to be worthy of being given a drop and trust me, even if a guild starts off on the right foot with that it eventually goes downhill.


    While yes, hammers do indeed have cons, they also have pros as have been stated many times in this thread. You cannot simply remove hammers at this point without first adjusting drop rates as well as putting some sort of system in place to make sure that that majority of drops are "good." Otherwise you go back to farmers npc'ing 95% of everything since nobody will use them without the chance to make them better.


    Lets have one conversation at a time. The first one should be about the root, core mechanics of the game. After that is taken care of we can go on to the branches, leaves, and sprinkles.

    Amikiir

    SharpShooter

    Epith

    Live by the Bow, Die by the Bow

  • Lycaria Are you suggesting that all gear should be bind on equip or perhaps even bind on pickup (original LN)? That would be an incredibly unpopular opinion, one that most people would suggest discourages farming in the first place. I for one think it never should have been implemented and that it was just OOS, not even OS, that wanted to make more money without a care for the players.

    Pretty sure I said high-tier, meaning blues and oranges. What I'm suggesting is that BiS gear of each cap should be BoP. Gears a bit below them in base stats, even if legendaries, BoE. Whites and greens, freely whatever.


    This way in order to "be the best" you'd actually have to go through the content in person, but it'd still yield the kinds of rewards farmers can sell for profit - just not endlessly. Good gear would, at some point, also leave the economy, not just pile up and circulate endlessly unless accidentally NPC:d or lost to inactivity. If you just flat-out don't want to explore the content, you settle for less.


    Do please note that this isn't a simple idea. To properly work, it'd require adjustments to drop tables, enhancement prices and possibly also stats, and most of all, demand farming content to be more inspiring with difficulty adjustments. I didn't mention it to sidetrack the convo, but because the conversation between me and TJL went towards what options are there for hammers, and spread to cover other related problems, including "fun".


    I will agree with you that this game is gear dependent, not skill dependent, but that does not mean that the only way to play the game should be farming, which is what your suggestion would inherently turn into. This would even exacerbate the current Fighter/Glad omnipotence even further since even at lower levels a well-geared Fighter can farm faster than most other classes. Either that, or the entire game would turn into an internal guild point-based system where you have to attend so many farming sessions to be worthy of being given a drop and trust me, even if a guild starts off on the right foot with that it eventually goes downhill.

    You have to be kidding me.

    While yes, hammers do indeed have cons, they also have pros as have been stated many times in this thread. You cannot simply remove hammers at this point without first adjusting drop rates as well as putting some sort of system in place to make sure that that majority of drops are "good." Otherwise you go back to farmers npc'ing 95% of everything since nobody will use them without the chance to make them better.

    No, seriously, didn't we literally just cover this?

    Lets have one conversation at a time. The first one should be about the root, core mechanics of the game. After that is taken care of we can go on to the branches, leaves, and sprinkles.

    Speechless. Just speechless.

  • "Lets have one conversation at a time. The first one should be about the root, core mechanics of the game. After that is taken care of we can go on to the branches, leaves, and sprinkles."


    Don't understand that either, we are literally talking about core issues... Akward.

  • -

    You have your opinion and I have mine, maybe you think that since I don't agree with you I'm misunderstanding you which is why I think you'll never see things the same way I do.


    I believe their should be a balance of hard work, cash and casual play. I think everything should be achievable by hard work, I think things should be made easier by cash and I believe luck should play some factor as well so casual players can achieve something as well, and I'm not talking about the "luck" you get from getting a perfect drop after 2 years of farming.

    Everyone has their own way of having fun, for you it maybe farming, for others it maybe spending their way to being the best and for me it's neither.


    You say you want people to have choices but you don't think high level gears should be traded or buy-able or hammer-able so you're basically limiting it to being farmed, unless it's luck based which you'll probably argue about rate improvements. This is exactly the same attitude as the players arguing P2W. limit the number of players who can achieve things in game and making it a straight but biased path to being the best...I wonder if you actually see that or are just going to argue how you think it's totally different...



    In an ideal game hammers would not be needed, SC items would not be needed, the player base would be big enough that all content could be done at any time.


    "When I say hammers are a contributing factor to something, I mean they contribute to exacerbate the effect of those already existing issues mentioned before. They are not to blame for those issues, they just make them worse. I'd draw you a picture with roots, branch and leaves of a plant and hammers being sprinkled on top of the whole thing, but sincerely hope you understand without."


    Again did you read my whole post? You cut off my main point. Charms and Extenders are the same, they don't cause the issues but they contribute and exacerbate the effect of those already existing issues (in those cases balance). You are blaming hammers for these issues though. Let's bring up your issues again.


    "Increase prices of above-mentioned trash, which players with less gems could previously afford to settle for. Now even trash is reserved to people who are already well off."

    "Tighten the competition around content where high-demand items drop, in a way it clearly favors cs-buffed glad types above all"

    "As a result you have solo glad whale twinks dominating content intended for enjoyable party play/low level story progression"


    Availability, pricing, class balance, drop rates, SC boosts. All were still issues before hammers existed. All issues fixed not just made better or worse by dealing with those other issues.


    Just like how balance would be a problem even without charms and extenders these issues would still be a problem with hammers gone.

    Hammers aren't the enemy here they are a necessary evil. Until other issues are fixed hammers should stay in game. If these other issues are fixed then we can talk about removing hammers after that, the key word here being after. You may not think premium items or necessary evils should even be a temporary option but many people do.


    Of course I also think Gamigo should fix the game to a point where hammers are not needed but we have yet to reach that point.

    You are making these arguments too early, try again after other fixes are made.


    I suspect many players like Charizard77 understand this which is what we're trying to get across to you, no one is saying hammers are perfect but there are very important reasons why they were added and why they are so popular where we are with the game right now.

    Currently leveling: Djarka.


    Current activity: Semi-active.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by The Jumping Lord ().

  • -

    Nope. I think you're misunderstanding me because you keep coming up with counter-arguments to things I didn't speak a word of. I'd pick examples, but you can re-read them just fine without help surely.


    "I believe their should be a balance of hard work, cash and casual play. I think everything should be achievable by hard work, I think things should be made easier by cash and I believe luck should play some factor as well so casual players can achieve something as well, and I'm not talking about the "luck" you get from getting a perfect drop after 2 years of farming."

    This I fully agree with, hence the already several times stated opinion that changes to drop tables need to be made. And the reason why I stand behind what I said: like you say, cash should make things easier, not allow completely skipping content.


    "Everyone has their own way of having fun, for you it maybe farming, for others it maybe spending their way to being the best and for me it's neither."

    Goes without saying. Also see earlier, "there should be other content that better caters to the variety of players and their varying ideas of enjoyable activities."


    "You say you want people to have choices but you don't think high level gears should be traded or buy-able or hammer-able so you're basically limiting it to being farmed, unless it's luck based which you'll probably argue about rate improvements."

    Not high level, high tier. Again, see "there should be other content that better caters to the variety of players and their varying ideas of enjoyable activities. There should even be other ways to get gear."


    "This is exactly the same attitude as the players arguing P2W. limit the number of players who can achieve things in game and making it a straight but biased path to being the best...I wonder if you actually see that or are just going to argue how you think it's totally different...""

    On the contrary, the goal is to limit the number of whales steamrolling everything to a point nobody else has a chance to even try, so everyone, cashed out or not, would be able to enjoy it.


    "Again did you read my whole post? You cut off my main point."

    I did read it, yeah. Already addressed the other nonsense cash items standing in the way of balance earlier, in a post you already replied to. Ohey, here's a good example of that thing mentioned up top. Even after I was so sure I made it crystal I'm not blaming hammers for any of it. What a shame.


    I honestly feel like we're going in circles now. The entire first argument I made was not that hammers should be just flat out removed, but that instead of introducing them, these issues you and others, including me, mention should've been fixed. AND, that could, and should, still be done. You chose to argue that.


    "You are making these arguments too early, try again after other fixes are made.


    I suspect many players like Charizard77 understand this which is what we're trying to get across to you, no one is saying hammers are perfect but there are very important reasons why they were added and why they are so popular where we are with the game right now."

    You're all fine with multiple people discussing this for several pages, and now decide to bring up a sorry excuse about timing? That's just bad manners. Even more, I haven't been talking solely about this one item for a long time. Why bother, because it's a mere fraction of a whole.

    But if you want to get all on that, then how about let's stop discussing any improvements? They've already said they will not do this, that or any of whatever because they're busy clearing code debt. Any microscopical-effort put into new content they create is just a buffer to keep players from getting real angry. Their real focus is on that one issue, and nothing major will be done before it's dealt with. Please go spread your word of "bad timing" to every thread suggesting changes and features.


    Even more, it's terrible lack of understanding of how development of massive projects like this works. Like I already said (gettingreallytiredofrepeatingmyselfhere), fixing a lot of these issues would not actually take that long, or even be that difficult. Another crucial point to note is that issues, big and small, are worked in tandem. Doesn't mean things aren't prioritized or categorized, but if you only work on issues based on your priority order and in most severe category, you're in for a really bad time. And so are your customers, because the bigger issues in constant development projects will never end. If you only focus on those, the small quick ones never get attention - which is something you can actually see a lot of here.

    Stop acting like talking about things you view as less important is somehow bad, or confuses the company in charge of dealing with them. It most definitely shouldn't.

  • Not sure why you continue to argue at this point..

    Even if you two came to an agreement that the whole community backs up, they would instead implement something nobody asked for.


    You're both right. You're just looking at the same problem from different perspectives.

  • Speaking as someone who has problem solved in a very relevant way to this discussion, I have to say that you cannot isolate big issues and small issues. You might think that one small issue is insignificant, but it may actually have arisen due to a bigger issue. Plus, fixing small issues does show the community that at least SOMETHING is being worked on. Might not be the thing we want worked on, but it's there none the less.


    What we should be doing is saying "hey thanks for fixing this, its a step in the right direction BUT we NEEEEED this issue fixed, like NOW!".

    From what I've seen people commenting about lately, removing coding debt is all well and good, but if people can't turn in their quests and level there's a major flaw. For me, that should have been fixed virtually as soon as people started reporting it. We're now a few weeks down the line, so I really hope that the issue is in the next maintenance. You might see that as a small issue if you've capped, or if you only get plvls, but to someone wanting to play through, it's a big issue. Game breaking.

    Once that issue is sorted, then I'd argue that issues such as drop rates and enhancement rates are the next biggest issue. These things keep farmers farming, and therefore keep gamigo in the money. You can throw in looking at where players can get their gears at this point, what kind of gears are available, what stats they have etc etc.

    Once all of this is addressed, THAT is when we look at the hammer issue/bind on account/person/equip type issues, as people will be able to get the gears far more easily/get far more meaningful gears (e.g. setting base stats for each level range). OK, so in the few weeks or whatever between drop rates/enhancement rates being sorted and the hammers being sorted people may have been able to get rich in game by farming endlessly, hammering and selling, but that's a short term problem. Long term, you've fixed one of the holes in the boat.

    Priorities people, priorities ;)

  • Uhhh, while fiesta is indeed gears/sc reliant game, its untrue that "skills are not needed", I have played with lot of different people and saw pretty useful 105s at DDF raids, and useless 120s. Have seens scless gladiators doing solid dmg at DQ/TOG with just 100% charm, and really trashy ones who had best SC/skins.

    Ability to change sets, properly spam/use skills (because lot of clerics thinks that just spamming heal is enough. even at cap. lol.), all of that falls into category of "skills/class understanding".

    One of oldest veterans of game, 2008+.
    Leader of oldest guild alive in game, BandOfTheHawk (2008+).
    Godliest free players alive, 0$ invested.

    Almost full cards collection.
    Author of numerous challenging videos and speed raids, top scorer of many GTs.
    Husband of a goddess.
    Facebook, Youtube, Site.... Find them on your own.

    ---------------

    And what did YOU achieve?

    About time to answer that question.

    -------------
    Discord: Yaseeda#3171