Gladiators are destroying the game

  • i did mention atk spd and violence o3o

    Must've missed it swimming through. Grats, you get a medal.

    But I literally mentioned Violence and insane stacking on glad skills a couple pages back, lol.

    Talking about stacking (a broken mechanic) isn't the equivalent of speaking of attack speed, which was broken even before stacking. I was looking for straight up suggestions.

    You're right about all you said though; while axe-wielding class traditionally has most single hit dmg, it shouldn't over-DPS archers, sin types, spellcasting DDs nor should it out-endure tanker and tanky healer/support heal types. Then again it's been somewhat broken in official version for a decade, so getting hopes up now would qualify as masochism. And to add to what you said, Joshua, while they didn't fix it, they didn't really do much to bring other classes up to par either. What makes it particularly sad is that in certain unmentioned places class balance used to be better than here as it was considered a priority, core mechanic.

    And jaewaie , I wouldn't flat out say they don't care, but it's rather complicated. I do think they've tunnel visioned hard on this and several other issues. When you work on some project for a long time there's an ever-accumulating pile of potential trip-ups. Underestimating your customer base, doing something you kinda know is not giving you good results, but you've done it for so long you're afraid to make a change, not keeping an eye on evolution direction of your field ie. competitors, organizational glitches, downplaying the importance of marketing skills, customer service, or professional project management, or blindly taking bad advice because it supports your gut feel, even if you should know your gut can be wrong.

    This thread and others like it are just pointless because they're not dialogue. You can (and have) said the same thing 20 times here before any staff member even emptily reacts to it. Yes they can say that they're still thinking of it and reading everything and+and+and, but that's not dialogue. That's talking to a god which sometimes replies in riddles. Since their idea of transparency, or lack of (it's not their fault, no finger-pointing), is to tell you they're doing something but can't tell you what, and that there may or may not be issues with your suggestions, but they can't tell you what they are, if they exist.

    Does nobody else feel like that seems like a really frustrating conversation to have? One where YOU try to find solutions because you care, but the side in charge of executing them doesn't even give you all the parameters of the issue, just keeps saying "yeah but, no"?

  • So apparently my reply got decided because I decided to call out gamigo for not responding.


    Right now I've pretty much given up on the game and the team. Haven't charged SC in months and lost basically all motivation to play. I have a capped char but who cares? It's not a glad, I'm not wanted, no fun in that.


    I will still be watching and replying to this thread though, I hope this thread will serve as a deterrent for anyone who wants to play the game and cap any other class.

  • Haven't been active since before the last balance patch.

    Aside from crusader, I have all other classes capped and many alts at different levels. What is there left to do? I would farm but they killed solo players content that is worth doing. Plus, drop rate is utter garbage.


    GT and all sort of pvp is boring and meaningless since the game is so imbalanced. There is no new content for years. I wouldn't come back even if new cap is released. The moment you experience other "good" MMOs, is the same moment you decide to not play this game anymore.


    Story is almost never important in mmos but in Fiesta it is just beyond bad. Not even a single great moment or a cutscene.

    Combat is more static than my chair. Crafting system is pointless and just a waste of time.

    Raids are a single guild activity and if you're in that guild, the raid will be over in couple of mins.

    Graphics are rough, engine is old. Terrible performance even on high end PCs.


    Being all nice and pretending that everything is fine isn't helping anybody.

    So, all I do now is just come here and let them know what an old school player thinks about what they did while at the same time letting them know how terrible they are doing.

  • 90% of people in game consider those as heal/buff slaves. Good job people, you made this game dead.

    That's a problem with the perception of the people and/or the kind of player base, not the game itself. In every other game, support classes are support classes, meaning the fighting classes are more powerful while support classes have other advantages to the team. We can not influence whether they are revered by the players or not though 💛


    It takes 10 mins because everybody charms. As I stated, the charms should PvP only not PvE, opposite of what you suggested.

    I'm aware that glads items are more costly than other classes because they're more popular, Higher demand on items. Meaning it is better to sell a glad's item then use that money to buy other class's item.

    I am confused. I have read multiple statements in good debate that charms destroyed the equilibrium of the PvP game. Players have said that without charms, PvP would be closer to balance than with charms. Please let me know what your thought process is. Thanks!


    It's rather pointless when you can't actually have a proper conversation. Look at this thread. There's over 200 posts from players, and two from staff that bear no real substance.

    I understand how that looks, but you might want to consider how many there are of you and how many there are of us, or rather how many there are of us that are authorized and informed to post here 💛 Just because we are not posting doesn't mean we are not reading the posts! Sometimes it takes a while, especially when certain CMs go on vacation (sorry about that), but I am always catching up! ;) I would very much enjoy reading your version of why we have ruined Fiesta Online. Seriously though, please share, I will read it eventually and not mock it if you


    Right now I've pretty much given up on the game and the team. Haven't charged SC in months and lost basically all motivation to play. I have a capped char but who cares? It's not a glad, I'm not wanted, no fun in that.


    I will still be watching and replying to this thread though...

    Sorry to hear that you have lost faith. I would like to ask you the same question: how have we ruined.... ;) what has happened that made you lose interest and/or hope? Is it "just" the glad thing, or is it more?

  • I have made multiple post on why this game has gone down hill and why players lost faith but you honestly don't care or cant do anything to make a change for multiple reasons Staff/cost/understanding of a code that was not written by gamigo

  • I am confused. I have read multiple statements in good debate that charms destroyed the equilibrium of the PvP game. Players have said that without charms, PvP would be closer to balance than with charms. Please let me know what your thought process is. Thanks!


    Yes, PvP without charms is quite good fun and has better balance.


    But it is easier for you guys to consider disabling charms in PvE compared to removing charms entirely from the game.

    if you want my honest opinion however, then I think charms should be removed from the game entirely. Which I have stated this in other thread recently.



    Here are some possible outcomes of removing charms from the game:


    The positives...

    1. Raids will no longer be 5 to 10mins task.

    2. Knights, and clerics will be viable again.

    3. Glads will no longer be able to solo the game.

    4. Any form of ranking will mean something since everybody will be on similar walking grounds.

    5. Game will be much easier to rebalance.

    6. PvP will no longer be "first to stun wins"


    The negatives....

    1. Some dungeons require adjusting since they are balanced around charms.

    2. Farming will be even worse since it takes longer to kill but the drop rate is just as terrible.

    3. Leveling up will be slower.

    4. There is extremely high number of charms around so even if they were removed many still have plenty to last for months.



    That's 5mins of brainstorming. I'm sure there are so much more to list.

    But as you can see, other than fixing the drop rate, everything else should be easy to fix.

    I put slower leveling as a negative even though i believe it isn't but that's objective.

  • I will add to this.


    If you want to achieve full pvp fairness you are going to have to make skills have PVE and PVP stats.


    Because right now those skills scale with the high hp monsters and mobs and not with other players hp.


    For example archers poison is based on mobs and not on player hp.

    In terms of pve skills are based and not on pvp.

    So you will always have a bad balance in some cases.


    For example if you want to make poison relevant in pve you have to put it pretty high, overpowering it in pvp.

    This holds back many classes from being decently balanced, especially mages at lower levels in PVE.

    Well mages in general. You can't put their damage to high because of PVP. But their single target damage therefore is pretty crap in PVE.


    This is just one example, in many cases this is what holds back classes from being fair.


    Cash shop items is another factor that breaks balance between classes.


    For example extenders. This makes many classes very hard to kill for anyone.

    But benefits fighters the most because fighters heal the most out of hp stones... and extenders make this hp stone gap even bigger.

    Especially for mages extenders tend to break balance at higher and at lower levels.


    Well there are plenty of other things breaking balance;

    Like those bracelet of bijjou thingies.


    I don't think anyone asked for those but they completely break the game.


    And ofcourse not to forget broken legendary weapons. Making many weapons no longer needed.

    Having way to much damage.


    That's just a few things out of my head.

  • Everything sounds great, if you eliminate the enchantments there are very positive points, the negative is something in the long term but it starts with the "drop rate", So the effort would be noticeable and we would all be happy with the drop

  • "Huge negative to add: Loss of income for gamigo."


    That is always one of these points people make but it is not right at all on many levels:


    - If the game becomes more playable for free players that means more people will join and more people to potentially buy cash shop items.


    - Free players already buy cash shop items indirectly from paying players resulting in money for gamigo


    - More new players will keep the game allive and a better game will keep more people playing


    - a dead game does not generate any money


    - more fairness means more free players to join high level content and invest and spend money


    - growing playerbase will result in a better game for all


    - less pay to win will result in less toxic whales as the load balance is more equally distributed, right now there are a few people that spend 1000s of euros. More players means that people can all spend a little bit less resulting in less toxicity and a more healthy game overal.


    Example: OS days

    When prices where cheaper and more fair many people where spending small amounts.

    Now many people have sworn to not spend a dime because Gamigo is greedy and doesn't care.

    Even I have spend a small amount in OS days on some prenerf gears. But right now most f2P just buy cash shop items from paying players


    Plenty of games are way less pay to win and manage to survive fine. Not everything has to be cash shop.


    There is already an excess of cash shop related pay to win stuff:


    Hp and Sp increase, mandatory for pay to play high level content (Extenders)

    Inventory space, better pay if you want to stop constantly throwing out items (old bag and small box)

    Literally a pay to win damage and defense boost, mandatory for pay to play high level content (Charms)

    Suits that give extra crit or other stats (Cash shop suits)

    +10 gear is pay to win and impossible without => (Enchancement bundles)

    Pets

    Mounts

    Drop rate boosting, because pay to farm is a thing (war rents)

    Yes you have to pay for any space to sell items.. (Multi houses)

    Because charms and suits and extenders where not enough another massive boost to crit and damage if you pay up = > (Skins)

    Beaty shop

    You better pay up if you want to change those misplaced skillpoints => (Skill resets)

    If you end up in a toxic situation where you get spammed when entering fbz, pay up and =>(Name change )

    Never wana die, no worry pay up and gamigo will give you a few => (hp magic pots)

    Wana dance? Haha silly people better pay up first => (dances)

    People asked for a way to stop exp on their perms, gamigo replied with; pay us and we will give you (exp holds)


    I think gamigo can stop adding stuff to this list and start fixing the game and making meaningfull changes before everyone leaves and it dies...

    When the game dies nothing will get sold, zero profit.


    thats 0.0000 euro for gamigo

  • Gamigo needs to decide if they treat fiesta like a game or like a business.


    You can get the same profit getting $1 from 1000 people as getting $1000 from 1 person but with the former you'll have more customers and a more active game.


    This is what Gamigo needs to realize and how bad the many different pay to win items have added up and up over the years, taken by themselves it's a bit unfair but not insurmountable. Added together they create a toxic playing environment full of unbalance and elitism.


    This is why players also need to realize they can't pick and choose what's unbalanced and needs to be removed and what's not:

    "Gladiators are broken, they create an unfair experience for those who don't play gladiator and should be immediately nerfed so it's more fair"

    "SC items are broken, they create an unfair experience for those who don't pay for everything but should not be removed as they've become staples in game and PvP and raids are unfair anyways"

    Do you see the hypocrisy?


    I'm not saying all SC items should be removed or fixed and Gamigo shouldn't have any income but balancing the game around SC items is just as broken if not more so then balancing it around gladiators.


    If you ask me everything that's broken should be nerfed all at once so it's completely fair and shows no bias.

    Currently active on: Djarka.


    Current activity: Semi-active.

  • I get all that, I'm just playing devil's advocate here, because that's how gamigo will be looking at it. I totally agree that people would be spending more in the long run! :)

  • You can get the same profit getting $1 from 1000 people as getting $1000 from 1 person but with the former you'll have more customers and a more active game.

    This is kinda the gist of it. In games where items are cheap, more people buy them. More people also buy more items for comfort vs. for need only.

    Think of Fiesta from personal perspective. What all have YOU wanted to buy, but chose not to, because you can't justify the price for what you'll get out of it? How many pre-100 chars run around in +9s? Do people who don't perm bother to farm for gear? How many people can afford casually playing 3 or more high level chars and keep them all cashed up to be worth it?

    When enhancing a single piece of gear to even +9 may cost tens of dollars/euros, and full set will cost you way over a hundred, how inclined are you to spend that money on anything but absolute necessity? Do note that this is multiples, even tenfold, the price of a subscription to a game without p2w elements, just sub and you're good. Chances are people will not do it for:
    - low tier gear (pre-100, if even then)
    - anything below blue
    - any gear with less than godlike stats for the class
    - any chars they don't plan to hardcore it on

    I have no idea why you'd want to keep it like this. Back in OS days they said it straight that they want enhancement to be "special" and not something everyone has, but not only was it nonsense then, that way of thinking has no place in the current game, and is also completely unnecessary. If I ever wanted a CM, GM, AM, BT, CEO, AT&T disclose why they've chosen something to be as it is, this would be it.

    Yes, upside is you can always sell the pieces afterwards for gems. Still, as initial investment, it's outrageously high. And while it should be combated in whole other ways, it's also a big contributor to the massive inflation that has been repeatedly made worse by adding new things to enhance and spend money on, but not doing anything to keep it from spreading - for example, by extending the bind-on-equip model to all tier blues and above.

    Obviously since we can't see the numbers ourselves, I'm speaking out of my butt on the issue. Gamigo may well know better, and maybe this whole cash item model works best for them, even when it doesn't for so many others. Still, one can have opinions.

    - there was a great list of cash items and other points here -

    For starters, balancing anything in a game around microtransactions is a joke. If you ever find yourself scratching your head wondering why is your player base declining, there's probably your answer.

    Extenders, graces & charms

    Outside of above-mentioned broken system, these have no actual reason to exist. They're there for bragging rights only, and imo they should be removed. Any and all necessary HP/SP/stat boosts should be obtained through playing the game, ie. baked into equippable items dropping from monsters. If you have to keep some of them, it should be PvP applicable parts only, and even then PvP sets as drops would be a more viable option. By no means should the PvE content ever require use of such items, and the fact is that for as long as they're there, they are offsetting your game's balance and forcing a choice of content being either easy and boring, or content being unplayable without themInventory & Storage

    These are fine. The current existing free limit for storage is fine as it is, and the inventory space would be fine IF the game wouldn't keep forcing untradable, unstorable cash freebie samples upon you faster than you can or have need to use them. The prices of perms are reasonable, but the prices of timed versions should be revised. Frankly I just can't see people spending money on 30-day old bags for alts, or anything they play casually not-every-day-style. These casual type players get the worst of it, because I can't see anyone spending any money on the 7-day one solely because its per-day cost is INSANE compared to the 30-day one. Why is this? Higher packaging costs? You're selling pixels.

    Costumes, weapon skins & pets

    Looking cute is a big motivator, and games like this should generate major part of their revenue through costume items. But the stats, especially varying stats, are a problem. With different stats per item you're kinda dictating what your players can and should wear if they want to be good at this game. It also puts your customers in an uncomfortable position.

    Whole point of buying and wearing costumes, traditionally, is to show off who you are through your avatar by wearing what you like, and frankly Fiesta is ruining that. Thing is even games where costumes are statless and permanent, generate a lot of consistent revenue through them, meaning people don't just stop buying them after they get one. They buy many. They switch it up, mix and match, sell, buy whole new wardrobe sets for alts.. People already want the costumes. You've forced them to want the stats, when there's no point to it.

    That's even before your marketing gimmicks of "limited time" items and circulating supply, and the fact that the prices are.. well.
    - 30 days of your cheapest, most useless stat set (body, head, face, back, tail, no pet because cheapest is free) costs you about 3 eur.
    - 30 days of your most useful, best stat set (same items + pet) costs you about 20.

    Both of these are mismatched and hella ugly. Given, if you don't care about hardcoring it and are comfortable with sacrificing some performance for looks, or only buy the current on-sale set regardless if you like the look, you can settle for 10-15 eur a month. But if you want the pieces to be useful, it once again gets expensive (especially when you add it up with cost of all the other must-have items) to the point many won't buy them unless they really need them. So not for alts just for show, or for casual play where majority of your 30-day time is spent offline. I think there may also be some disgruntled individuals who take issue with the fact that for the stats, these are almost mandatory for some things at cap, but these things to do aren't actually all that many, so you have to get them, but only get real use out of them for few hours a week. So I think the stats should be equalized or gotten rid of altogether, and the prices both revised/cut and reflecting the changes.

    Weapon skins should be statless, permanent, and have no durability element. Pets should be perm, boe and otherwise tradeable, which could obviously justify price revision. Or, get rid of the stats, just keep the useful functions and charge for those.

    Mounts

    Mounts in my opinion are actually great. The price of fully upgraded perms is justified, and the upgrade model of these is really smart. They're like a golden standard for a f2p cash item: you can manage without, but they're so convenient you'll probably want one. Prices are indeed very reasonable with the timed versions too. And to add, you also have the slower but better-than-none in-game versions, so your choices aren't black and white, rather than a nice sliding selection. If anything, should be tradeable or at least storageable when you haven't yet used it on a char.


    War rants, King's touch, alchemy scrolls, EXP boosts


    If base game without them was optimal, there'd be nothing wrong with any of these as they have the potential to work like mounts do. They're kinda nonsense right now though. EXP boost is almost useless because the leveling isn't hard (seriously it just isn't), and it doesn't boost EXP you get from quests. On that note, google finds a ridiculously high-priced Quest EXP booster card from your shop. Smells of moneymaking, and also a failure.

    Rant or touch shouldn't be a necessity as they (at least rants) are now, but could be good additions. Rant and boost are problematic because the game already showers you with free ones. Alchemy scrolls seem balanced and useful as intended, but guess there wasn't much room to ruin it there.

    EXP hold & Teva

    Heavily undermined by the way the game is now. Does anyone actually buy these? EXP hold sure could be useful to perm on a level, if people who don't perm on it actually spent more than two hours within that 10-level range.

    Multi houses

    While very inexpensive, still.. Just implement the AH. Seriously, forget about the mail system, make the AH. It even sucks money out of the game. And there are about 37 other ways to make people hang out in towns and populate them. Forcing players to multibox AFK and pay, even a small amount, to do it unannoyingly is just sad. I can't obviously imagine what massive revenue these eur-a-pop items accumulate to, but I could bet many people would still buy them for looks and dumb messages even if they didn't need them to sell things.

    Magic pots

    Actually a huge mistake. The game already hands you so many survivability boosts, a 100% pot with no cooldown is the last nail in the coffin of class balance. Just get rid of them, or at least add a cooldown to them. No, just get rid of all the cash pots.

    Dances

    Could actually be a useful gold sink. Add a disco NPC to a town, sell 30-day versions there for like 50g each, and only perms in item shop. For perm, obviously price should get a massive increase. Maybe 5-10 eur a piece?

    Reset scrolls and capsules, name changers, guild scrolls, coupons...

    Prices of some items are a bit high, but otherwise no problem with these. They're luxuries, not necessities.



    I was gonna add a TL;DR but ran out of characters so, sucks to be you.

  • I forgot hammers of bijjou..


    But hey these deserve a special place in hell and an extra long post.

    Hammers are the reason I quit the game.


    The destruction of farming. The pay to be the best instead of farm and play to be the best.

    Reason many MANY players have quit and lost a way to make money.


    What did hammers do:


    Rare gear and high level gear becomes unobtainable. Gear that should be (drop infront of shutian or npc material) becomes 10 gem because hey look it has 10 hammers.


    People are now unable to buy any high level gear or rare gear that should normally cost peanuts or be npc food.


    Low level gear is not affected as the price of hammers is higher than the price of buying a godly one. Also the value of lower level godlies is to low to justify using hammers.

    With exception to perms or OJ’s or stuff thats hard to get.


    Godly gear price drops like mad because hammering changes the game, a good example would be OJ’s.

    Right now people just buy em in bulk and hammer them because getting them is rare and costly and hammering them is worthwhile.

    Resulting in a bunch of godly OJ’s for sale to the point everyone has them so the price drops like crazy.

    Finding godly OJ’s will be less profitable for farmers because of this and the joy of finding them will be lost....

    The effort to abtain these via farming is nothing compared to the 3 minuts of hammering.

    You potentially obtain a new OJ with every hammer.


    Making the price drop like crazy and making the ones that should be bought by casual players way to expensive.


    There are many other things that make it very hard to make money right now but this has to be one of, if not the biggest driving factor.


    Another thing this does is motivate people to not play the game. Instead of joining md hc 100s of times they simply buy fail jewels for 2-4 gem and hammer them.

    Meanwhile no one has to put in any effort or actually has to join a kq or participate in content anymore.


    And then you hear the shouts of boredom. Ugh.. this game is boring there is nothing to do.


    Ofcourse there is not you have just bought yourself 2000 hours of farming MDhc.


    Say you are very lucky and you get an orange every 9 chests of MDhc.

    You participate at 2 different hours and are lucky enough to run twice the first time but some idiot wants to do mean giant honeying the second time resulting in only one run.


    It’s not allowed but everyone does it, you run 3 characters (otherwise kq wont even be able to start). The sad part is that you might need to run 3 chars to even start this kq...


    So 3 chars times 3 chests means 9 chests.. you get 1 OJ with 25dex 25spr... omg gona be godly!... and 33int.. NOPE that doestn’t happen you don’t just get godly stuff! run again another 299 times first noob!


    That means you spend around 20 mins a run times 3 so 1 hour for 1 jewel.


    That is if,

    -You don’t disconect while entering kq

    -The kq manages to start

    -The kq does not fail because to many leechers joined

    -your not unlucky in finding OJ’s like me


    -Not keeping into account the hours between kq’s

    -second run is only possible if the kq started fast enough.


    Say you get a godly 1in25 jewels wich is a pretty good statistic it will take you 25 days just to get one of these.

    AND THAT IS JUST ONE PIECE

    3 MORE TO GO


    That’s basicly a day worth of content in each hammer you use... and because you can chose wich jewel you hammer also no wrong ones you already have.


    If that is not the epitomy of pay to win and a disgrace to any godly geared pvper in the past then I do not know what is...


    Players who where godly in the past often worked their but of to obtain these pieces. They couldn’t simply pay themselves godly gear. Or it would be very, very expensive and the farmer would be payed royally.


    This is just one example but can be used the same for the more recent HG jewels and other high level rare gears. The same happens for these right now.


    It destroys any purpose to play the game and creates immense infairness.

  • That's a problem with the perception of the people and/or the kind of player base, not the game itself. In every other game, support classes are support classes, meaning the fighting classes are more powerful while support classes have other advantages to the team. We can not influence whether they are revered by the players or not though 💛

    Im seriously happy watching Zao answering my posts ,BUT,Im still sure that Zao have never played other mmorpgs to check how supports work. I'd love to hear that CLERIC'S BUILD (the one in Fiesta game) is something you can find ONLY in this game. Have you ever played AION? Have you ever seen real pvp clerics? With spells/stuns/roots etc. Have you ever seen true healers, with powerful mass ressurections, mass heals in great distances etc... Well i think you haven't!!! All im trying to say in this particular post is that this unbalance (which is created from overbuffing these champs + charms) makes other classes really secondary and maybe forcing them to extinct! Im not talking as someone that wants to spread hate inside fiesta community. Im just acting in such a sad way while watching my class and the gameplay around her being ruined cuz of an unfair and class-aimed overbuff. As an example, i can use the gameplay at 100- lvl where LN/CC runners use stones/pots/magic pots (with 0 cd) to greatly bypass the need of a healer,

    By the way, you spoke about advantages. You mean endure/immune??? Or some basic def/m.def/dmg/mdmg buff? Okey, make another afk follower cleric for those. When a glad shows off his 300k dmg with charms-sets etc, okey...lemme give him like 2k dmg more... What else???? Oh, you mean heal??? For what actually? Oh yeah, i remember....to reduce dmg to enemy gladiators at SK...

    Just saying, i don't need someone to "influence" me while being a 10-years-old player. I need someone who knows about how mmorpgs work, to balance the game.:*:*:saint::saint:<3<3

  • I'd love to hear that CLERIC'S BUILD (the one in Fiesta game) is something you can find ONLY in this game. Have you ever played AION? Have you ever seen real pvp clerics?

    +1. It's not just that one game either, it's pretty much any. Support characters are essential key players in every aspect outside your basic grind, and can also stand their ground in PvP, even solo, while still having their own class disadvantages that nudge them towards finding teaming up with others beneficial.


    The way Fiesta does with managing these class differences, advantages and disadvantages, to begin with is lazy. And with certain developmental decisions down the road, and introduction of certain items, some via item shop, the whole balance of benefit of including any class, vs class specific strengths, has been further set off.

  • That's a problem with the perception of the people and/or the kind of player base, not the game itself. In every other game, support classes are support classes, meaning the fighting classes are more powerful while support classes have other advantages to the team. We can not influence whether they are revered by the players or not though 💛

    What are you talking about? Have you ever played anything beyond Fiesta in your life? Because Fiesta is pretty much the only game where Clerics are pure support class with no ability to do anything else properly. Go take a look at other MMOs, such as WoW and try to tell me that the healer classes there are weak and incapable of anything beyond support (or even weaker than the other classes). In other games, healers have skills beyond healing that can be used to inhibit enemies, which also classifies as support, why doesn't Fiesta have that? Why won't Fiesta give Clerics a ranged stun they desperately need so they don't have to constantly struggle with chasing down enemies that can fight from afar, or doing repeats like Neps without having to worry about bashing the damn thing down for 5+ minutes with 105 +12 Malephar Mace? Giving Holy Knights Bash Debuff was a step in the right direction, so what holds you all back from finalizing the thought process? Right now, Clerics are a very niche subject to consider. Holy Knights barely hang in there to give party buffs, Crit buffs and God's benevolence at raids, whereas Guardians beyond OC are fully useless. Heals are not even needed in the game for their intended purpose, they're better used on enemy glads to reduce their damage output, it's laughable. There isn't a single reason to deploy a Guardian for raids, since nobody takes such enormous damage a Guardian would be needed, and there's nothing a Guardian provides to the table beyond that. Most a Guardian can do is heal enemy gladiators at OD wars, but even then their presence is not at all necessary, HKs can do the job well enough since everyone is so durable. Some other things I never understood either is why does Guardian's rebirth work as lesser revive buff rather than a free Tear of Legel, or why does Guardian use a hammer, which is a weapon that befits a Holy Knight much more than a Guardian, who should be stuck with a mace as combat is not Guardian's field of expertise. If you argue it's attack speed, then make said attack speed actually meaningful, rather than an overglorified statistic that means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Attack speed on weapons is irrelevant with how broken stacking is and effectively works in favor of archers mostly, who have a reason to AA with Nature's speed.

  • Actually there are plenty of games where support is just that.

    Doing any form of pvp with a support is just asking to be beaten, unless it is group pvp.


    Here's what fiesta's missing though. Even as a support, they should do just as well in PvE solo.

    Other than that, clerics are fine.

  • Actually there are plenty of games where support is just that.

    Doing any form of pvp with a support is just asking to be beaten, unless it is group pvp.


    Here's what fiesta's missing though. Even as a support, they should do just as well in PvE solo.

    Other than that, clerics are fine.9

    Give us some examples please (of these games, and i mean names), i would love to know. But i would love you to compare the games too. (For example, in lineage 2 there are like 10 support classes, with different buffs each one and ofc usefull, that stay on you for 19 mins -- while in fiesta endure/immune stay for like 74 mins, which can easily turn clerics into buff bots). I also enjoyed the fact you answered yourself already ( here's what fiesta's missing though). You mean the group pvp right? Another reason is that cleric slots are being filled from glads, especially after SK when are charms are still on, and that's a fact! Guess why though...!!!