Followup change, post-stacking nerf

  • The change to 'stacking' helps negate a couple exploits in game and minimize the advantage of others. This change has been done before, back in like 2012 or so ( i forget the exact year). Gladiators have the exact same number of skills we had since then, despite a cap 25 lvls higher.


    The reason people are upset is due this change slowing down the pace of the game. It also reduces potential damage output in an already pay2win game. This game's been around for 12 years now, and no other game gave us a mechanic like 'stacking'. Usually auto attacks in other MMO's mean next to nothing, but in Fiesta it was the corner stone of an entire group of classes.


    So to counter the negative implications of this change, I would suggest a minor buffs in attack speed to bring the pace of the game back up. We recover some of our damage output, have a more enjoyable combat pace but still retain the positive aspects of the recent patch.


    Fighters:

    Axe base attack speed: 1.5 --> 1.3 (0.2 sec across the board)

    2h Sword base attack speed: 1.3 --> 1.1 (0.2 sec across the board)

    1h sword attack speed: 1.0 --> 0.9 (0.1 sec across the board)

    Violence : Add a new lvl up at 120 which reduces attack speed by an additional 0.1sec and increase the DOT damage of violence.


    Tricksters:

    Claws base attack speed: 1.6 --> 1.4 (0.2 sec across the board)

    Dual sword base attack speed: 1.8 --> 1.6 (0.2 sec across the board)


    Crusaders:

    Blade "That sword which is too cool for this class" base attack speed: 1.0 --> 0.9 (0.1 sec across the board)


    Archers/Clerics:

    Bow base attack speed: 1.1 --> 1.0 (0.1 sec across the board)

    Crossbow base attack speed: 1.4 --> 1.3 (0.1 sec across the board)


    Note:

    Keep in mind lvl 50 blue weapons, 70 blue weapons, UT weapons have lower attack speed. So UT axe 1.3 --> 1.1 sec.

    Everyone is upset about the gameplay, implement a positive change to counter the negative. The skill re-balancing was nice, but it was nowhere enough.

    OneWingedAngels


    Pansy - Isya - 135 Gladiator

    Pansy - Cypion - 106 Gladiator

    Milk - Cypion - 66 Mage

  • In addition, I’d gladly take a nerf to glad damage passive or overall damage to any class necessary to take the place for the new animation system. I do see the reasoning for the changes but It’s just too game changing to take this route.


    I’m sure the HUGE negative response from the community is more than enough to prove this.

  • except attack speed isnt for all classes, mages/clerics will still suffer


    currently


    all skills on mage are slower, including magic blast, CC, fear, blink, all aoes (cant nova/magic burst together quickly anymore)

    and all cleric heals/quicken/deadly blessing ect ect are also slower, making it nearly impossible for a HK to keep even one person alive let alone a party of 5 and even guardians have suffered from this change having only heal/rejuv to do the "real" healing work on an entire party with these slow animations

    so while this might help out other classes whatll help more is reverting the animation change, or QUICKLY making a fix for it that doesnt take 1 + months to adjust (something that shouldnt need adjusted anyway if there were competent people to test patches before releasing them)


    your intentions are good @OP but the focus needs to be put back to skills, because at the end of the day that is/will continue being the problem until its reverted/adjusted ~

  • Agreed. I haven't played a mage for the better part of 10 years and so I'll defer to actual mage players. Theory crafting can only take me so far without actually experiencing it.


    I do have skill related suggestions with regards to Glads but those would be more difficult to implement. The fact we haven't got a single new skill in 10 years or so says enough, we really do need some. I suggested Attack speed changes because they would be the easiest to do and can be done the quickest.

    OneWingedAngels


    Pansy - Isya - 135 Gladiator

    Pansy - Cypion - 106 Gladiator

    Milk - Cypion - 66 Mage

  • I can see how Pansy's suggestion actually gift players back some of the damage output lost with the recent patch. Adding minor buffs in attack speed all across the board for classes with or without a cast time is a solid idea to apply and test out. However it may never replace the previous gameplay. I admit that is a whole different topic entirely.


    As a full-support cleric, most of my skills and character customization are geared and empowered to enhance the gameplay of group I decide to party up with. Even if somewhat unmentioned in this thread, God's Benevolence (cross skill) may be nerfed in some aspect. And although I use it effectively, a faster cast time would be a plus in general to optimize its benefits with my parties.


    All in all, I give Pansy a thumb's up for actually seeing both sides of the recent patch, and opting to suggest viable actions to sate the population missing the previous ability to stack.


    slimeghost

  • Thanks for the feedback Belle.


    Indeed, we really need to look at the duration of the skill animation locks. The animations were fine for gameplay pre-patch. But post stacking nerf, some of the skills for Clerics and Mages really need to be adjusted.

    OneWingedAngels


    Pansy - Isya - 135 Gladiator

    Pansy - Cypion - 106 Gladiator

    Milk - Cypion - 66 Mage

  • Attack speed wouldn't help since every class aside from Archers still need to use skills to DPS, and even then an SS' auto-attack animation limits their true attack speed to 0.45 at it's fastest even though theoretically you can reach 0.3 with T6 Speed, an attack speed gem, and a chim/70 blue bow.


    Attack speed would obviously help when skills are on cooldown, but that will never be the case with how long it takes to go through a single rotation now.

    Amikiir

    SharpShooter

    Epith

    Live by the Bow, Die by the Bow

  • Attack speed wouldn't help since every class aside from Archers still need to use skills to DPS, and even then an SS' auto-attack animation limits their true attack speed to 0.45 at it's fastest even though theoretically you can reach 0.3 with T6 Speed, an attack speed gem, and a chim/70 blue bow.


    Attack speed would obviously help when skills are on cooldown, but that will never be the case with how long it takes to go through a single rotation now.




    With the current method of playing glad, attack speed is a much more important factor. Testing with a UT axe to simulate the 0.2 atk speed buff, I'm able to shoot skills out quicker with the current play style.

    OneWingedAngels


    Pansy - Isya - 135 Gladiator

    Pansy - Cypion - 106 Gladiator

    Milk - Cypion - 66 Mage

  • With the current method of playing glad, attack speed is a much more important factor. Testing with a UT axe to simulate the 0.2 atk speed buff, I'm able to shoot skills out quicker with the current play style.

    What your stating is not how attack speed is supposed to function. If it is currently doing so it's a bug.

    Attack Speed has nothing to do with cast animation times. The recent change made it so the full animation of skills has to be completed before the next part of the rotation can proceed.


    While improving attack speed may make things feel fluid you're not actually solving the issue. You're just weaving 1-2 more auto attacks in between your skills.

    If Gamigo wants more fluid gameplay the place to start is smoothing cast and auto attack animations and then adjusting (mostly lowering) cooldowns on skills or improving the skill point investment for cooldown reduction.

  • What your stating is not how attack speed is supposed to function. If it is currently doing so it's a bug.

    Attack Speed has nothing to do with cast animation times. The recent change made it so the full animation of skills has to be completed before the next part of the rotation can proceed.


    While improving attack speed may make things feel fluid you're not actually solving the issue. You're just weaving 1-2 more auto attacks in between your skills.

    If Gamigo wants more fluid gameplay the place to start is smoothing cast and auto attack animations and then adjusting (mostly lowering) cooldowns on skills or improving the skill point investment for cooldown reduction.

    This is not a bug. Use a skill when your auto attack lands. Use another skill when the next auto attack lands. Use another skill when another auto attack lands.


    This is not a bug, it's just timing your skills to be in sync with your auto attacks. Now use 3 skills back to back without waiting 1.3 seconds for an auto attack to land, then the skills will go off on their own.


    If you have faster attack speed, you have quicker auto attacks. Which in term mean I can do what I stated above, in a quicker manner. A fighters skill animation doesn't last 2 seconds, they're much less.


    What I describe is basically what stacking was before the patch. The only difference now is we're limited to one skill at a time.Where as pre-patch, you could land like 4 skills almost instantly on top of one auto attack.

    OneWingedAngels


    Pansy - Isya - 135 Gladiator

    Pansy - Cypion - 106 Gladiator

    Milk - Cypion - 66 Mage


  • Let me emphasize what you stated verus your above quote. What you're saying isn't the same above as below.

    Testing with a UT axe to simulate the 0.2 atk speed buff, I'm able to shoot skills out quicker with the current play style.


    You're not able to "Shoot skills out quicker". You're still using them at the exact same rate. They are limited by both cooldown and animation length.


    What you are describing is how the attack speed feels more fluid, it has no impact on your skills. Yes you're able to feel like stacking is easier/more fluid but that isn't the same as using skills quicker.


    Simply put what you are implying is that Attack Speed has an impact on Cast animation lock-out which if it did would be a bug.

  • Like Kyo said, you're simply using the auto-attack animation as a trigger for when to use your next skill. But since Fighter animations are the quickest you're wasting a of time in between.


    Try the new system on a Trix, which have an effective attack rate of the weapon divided by 2 (claws are actually 0.8 and ds actually 0.9). Trix feel the worse out of any class right now because their animations are the longest, despite having a fast attack rate.

    Amikiir

    SharpShooter

    Epith

    Live by the Bow, Die by the Bow

  • Skills come out at the same rate but I'm describing the current method of stacking. Can't expect the class to be so face-roll that you just hit skills and you're fine. This adds an extra layer of skill requirement to bring out the full potential. Lowering attack speed, makes it more fast paced to do so.

    OneWingedAngels


    Pansy - Isya - 135 Gladiator

    Pansy - Cypion - 106 Gladiator

    Milk - Cypion - 66 Mage

  • attack speed really means little to the trickster class. You'd be looking at reworking their entire animations or giving them a flat damage boost.

    Thats absolutly right, the attack speed for trickster is real important but altough you should be in the right position to cast all youre skills without lagging around and without any char freezing animations :c

    "Foward is the only way the wind blows" ~

    135 |135 | 135 |135| 115 | 110 | 100

    giphy.gif

  • Thats absolutly right, the attack speed for trickster is real important but altough you should be in the right position to cast all youre skills without lagging around and without any char freezing animations :c

    I can only speak for gladiators, it's all I have. I think reducing animation and CD for some soul generation skills or buffing the damage of some DOT's would be good for tricksters. If someone can give a detailed suggestion, i'm sure the community can back it.


    I spoke to a couple capped Spec's, they said the attack speed would help them too. Better than nothing

    OneWingedAngels


    Pansy - Isya - 135 Gladiator

    Pansy - Cypion - 106 Gladiator

    Milk - Cypion - 66 Mage