NERF ARCHERS IN FBZ (ESPECIALLY SS)

  • WHAT THE -Edited- IS THIS CLASS


    THEIR STUN OUTRANGES EVERY OTHER SKILL IN THE GAME AND THEY JUST HAVE TO RUN AROUND WAITING FOR THEIR DOTS TO KILL YOU WITH 5000 DMG/S HURRRRRR DURRRRRRRR


    NERF THIS -Edited- PLZ


    MAGES LITERALLY HAVE 0 CHANCE VS ARCHERS BECAUSE THEY CANT EVER GET IN RANGE TO HIT ITS SO STUPID. THERE SHOULD BE SOME COUNTERPLAY POSSIBLE LIKE CMON!!!!:cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing:


    ALSO -Edited- SHARPSHOOTERS MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE. RANGERS ARE -Edited- ANNOYING TOO BUT NOT NEARLY AS -Edited- UP AS SS:cursing::cursing:<X:cursing:

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Kuroneko: Please refrain from using profanity whilst you are on the forums. ().

  • SS might be better against mages and other archers, but a good ranger will make a melee's life miserable with entrap.


    There also once was a triangle of Fighter > Archer > Mage > Fighter. This was a general rule, a good Mage could beat a bad Archer, and there have been caps where one class dominates everything.


    Another thing is that if an Archer is just running away and relying on DOTs for the entirety of their damage, that not really a "fight." I hate playing that way because...


    1) Archers, especially SS, get more damage out of auto-attacks with Nature's Speed on than any amount of time with DOTs.


    2) In cases where you do want DOTs, resist rates are absolutely ridiculous. You can get near 100% resists with just a necklace and Cleric Immune buff. Archers will never be balanced around DOTs unless unless they make it more reliable and reduced the damage.

    Amikiir

    SharpShooter

    Epith

    Live by the Bow, Die by the Bow

  • Stay out of FBZ, Fiesta was not designed to be a PvP game. Stop chasing Archers if you do not want them to kite you.

  • Learn to play your class and build it right with the right gear including skill points. Archer was made to kill mages, mages were made to kill fighters, fighters were made to kill clerics, and cleric was made to kill archers. I have seen clerics kill mages if the classes are built right. IF you know how to build the class right, any class can kill each other now days. I am tired of hearing how people want classes nerfed because they die in PVP because they didn't build the character right. Stop complaining or stay out of PVP.

  • some people have really spent a lot of time studying the class, using the right build, gears, weapons etc.. I have found out that they have 2 or 3 complete +10 outfits depending on what other class they are fighting.. they interchange them, PVP is their life, they have no desire in actually playing the game. so just play the game if you are not willing to put in the time, and RL mioney

  • DoTs can never be balanced. Buffing that part of the class for the rebalance shows how clueless Gamigo is.

    • They're heavily inconsistent because of varying resists
    • They're useless in raids if there are multiple archers
    • They're extremely inconsistent in pve vs pvp due to the differences in defence/health

    Even worse is how they double down on the mistake every single time and are even considering giving other classes DoT.


    Instead, they should focus on the real problem. Archer damage is pathetic without DoTs. They're supposed to be a top PvE DPS, but they're not simply because they're so weighted on DoTs, which are useless in pve.

    • Buff their base damage (particularly for bows, xbows are already fine)
    • Make their skills cleaner/faster to use (aoes have like 1.5 sec casting time), half the skills are completely useless
    • Possibly bring stacking back
    • If they have debuffs, allow it to scale. Allow the DoT damage to scale with defence and the archer's damage. Give them debuffs that are more useful in different situations, rather than just 3 flat damage poisons.
  • DoTs can never be balanced. Buffing that part of the class for the rebalance shows how clueless Gamigo is.

    • They're heavily inconsistent because of varying resists
    • They're useless in raids if there are multiple archers
    • They're extremely inconsistent in pve vs pvp due to the differences in defence/health

    Even worse is how they double down on the mistake every single time and are even considering giving other classes DoT.


    Instead, they should focus on the real problem. Archer damage is pathetic without DoTs. They're supposed to be a top PvE DPS, but they're not simply because they're so weighted on DoTs, which are useless in pve.

    • Buff their base damage (particularly for bows, xbows are already fine)
    • Make their skills cleaner/faster to use (aoes have like 1.5 sec casting time), half the skills are completely useless
    • Possibly bring stacking back
    • If they have debuffs, allow it to scale. Allow the DoT damage to scale with defence and the archer's damage. Give them debuffs that are more useful in different situations, rather than just 3 flat damage poisons.

    It's not a gamigo only thing. Myself and many others pointed this out several times while the game was under Outspark control.


    They likely will never touch weapon/armor stats again because of how weird that system is. Emphasis on again the last major touch was the reduction of evasion on warrior gears some 6 years ago now.


    DoT's are eh....in PvE for the reasons listed, but they were pretty much garbage outside of soloing before so atleast they're slightly improved. I don't agree with the need to make them scale, they just need to stack in intensity (single target dots only) but have the cooldowns slighty increased. If the archer has enough time to get you upto 10 stacks of then you derserve that damage. If they unwilling to go that route then the DoT's need to have some utility added as well like reducing p.defense/healing/ total max hp.


    Bringing back stacking is possible but would create more balance problems again and it's best it stays gone.


    Either way i sincerely doubt you'll get meaningful balance updates even with that roadmap.

  • Xbow and bow damage has already been buffed before. There's nothing complicated about it - it's literally just a number in a database. They can just run the same script, except hopefully this time double check it's correct to run on both EU and NA.


    Regarding keeping static damage for DoT - how does that solve the problems I outlined? How can that help to make them more balanced in both pve and pvp.

  • Xbow and bow damage has already been buffed before. There's nothing complicated about it - it's literally just a number in a database. They can just run the same script, except hopefully this time double check it's correct to run on both EU and NA.


    Regarding keeping static damage for DoT - how does that solve the problems I outlined? How can that help to make them more balanced in both pve and pvp.

    I already laid out that you don't keep them static. Either they stack and increase in intensity or you give them added utility like you pointed out.

    Increasing damage sure that can be done, yes i understand it's just a number in a data file, however that also has more moving parts. You either are selectively forgetting the number of bugs introduced with that change or don't know them, i'm not sure which.


    Fun fact that "simple change" your referencing caused some xbows to have negative damage values, and enchancing them caused other issues.

  • That's what I'm talking about in my post. They ran a 'simple script' which was designed to be run on EU. When they ran the same script on NA, of course there were issues. 'Except hopefully this time double check it's correct to run on both EU and NA' did you just forget to read this line?


    Maybe you misunderstood what I mean by static. I mean damage that isn't influenced by their defence or your damage. eg: 90 damage per second. If you stack it 10 times, it's still a static number. 900 per second.


    This is an issue because pve is scaled far differently to pvp. Weak mobs could have 100k health, and in boss fights glads could be hitting 5, 10, 20k depending if the boss is affected by slash. People can charm and double their damage. Meanwhile, archers are balanced around direct numbers, meaning they're either too strong or too weak.


    Additionally, how do DoTs factor in to open raids? If they stack, which archer is the damage attributed to? Is there a cap on the number of stacks?


    What I propose is that if there is a DoT, the damage is based on some percentage of the archer's damage or whichever other stat. That way, an archer can be balanced in the same way as other physical damage classes and have their damage scale appropriately with the content they're facing as well as their own damage/weapon/sc etc.

  • Yes i absolutely missed that line. I was speaking solely to the issues that had happened instead and that's my bad.


    Ideally you'd have the cap be some unreasonably unobtainable number even in raids. Additionally the stacking in intensity would only effect the single target DoT's.


    I understand where you're coming from but i have mixed thoughts on this myself. Your way would lean toward making their damage against most raid bosses almost non-existant as they generally have absurd p.def. and hp. At the same time they'd become almost unbearable in PvP.


    Ideally you want the opposite to be true. You want to allow archers to be strong at PvE where they naturally excel while being healthy in PvP. You can't achieve that without having some restriction to how strong DoT effects are (or by having seperate balance for both, but that's a pipe dream).


    Let's just agree to disagree on the optimal solution here and state the obvious they have many unexplored options and they should look into all of them. Be it DoT's scaling on weapon damage, DoT's stacking in intensity, DoT's having more utility, or having some way to proc the DoT's for added burst.

  • Well the thing that made Archers, Fighters and Tricksters different was the way they dealt physical damage.


    Glads have a lot of skills to rotate through with a high damage weapon and low attack rate (dunno why violence is so strong lol).

    Reapers had a ridiculous spike every 5-6 seconds.

    Spectres had more consistent DPS with higher damage skills and spikes every 4-5 seconds.


    Sharps used raw free stat STR x attack rate x skin boost x crit + any additional DoTs, skill damage to stack things down. They were the best DPS for Helga in 105, and debatably Karen in 115, if only because they didn't have to run away from (or run 2m from) the problem AoEs.


    The problem is that the game was never taken in the right direction from that era of somewhat-balance. Each class' strengths should have been pushed, and if they were OP, their weaknesses should have been made more apparent.


    Soul Slash CD should have been reduced to what it is now (pretty sure it's broken right); Trickster sets should have been fixed (they were broken for a long time.)

    Vitality Duration should have been reduced so that Glads can't perm vit as easily.

    There were plenty of ways Archers could have been balanced around attack speed for SS & Aimed/Power Burst for Rangers. Most obviously, the Annihilating Power buff which afaik is sitting in the files unused to this day.


    Instead they removed stacking and made weapon damage the only way to deal damage. Furthermore they buffed skill damage which I agree with but obviously Aimed and Power shot upgrades should have gone to Rangers then, and Sharpshooters should have stayed ASPD.


    Basically they dun goofed. It'll never be a contest that removing stacking, constantly nerfing drop rates from being sustainable in 105/110 cap, and introducing Lucky House were the three things that destroyed Fiester.