Being a Guardian is so lame...

  • Hello,

    This is a rant about something that's really been bothering me for the past few months.
    As a Guardian, I always feel like I'm the most useless class in the game because no one wants me in parties or expos for raids/ farming,
    Most people would always rather have a HolyKnight as they are pretty much better in every aspect (cross, crit buff, etc....).

    It's such an empty feeling when the only time I ever get a party is by begging my Guild members to join a raid or expo.
    I get invited (once in a while, rarely), but only because I am part of the guild; not because my class is able to properly contribute to the party.


    I only chose Guardian thinking that the stronger heals would make it easier to be a party-oriented cleric, but boy was I wrong. Big time.
    It is honestly really lame when you feel like you have to beg and leech your way in order to be able to participate in dungeons and obtain gear.
    Can we please make Guardian more viable in PVE? Please...

    Maybe make Rebirth last for an hour (just like normal cleric buffs) and make them work like Tears of Legel so people don't lose their scrolls when they revive.
    This skill is borderline USELESS at the moment considering people who raid do not want to lose all their T6 scrolls / purple pots / disease immunity when they die,
    which is why they would always rather use a tear instead. Also if HK buffs can last for 75 minutes, why can't guard's Rebirth last 59 minutes instead of 4 minutes.
    Having to use it every 4 minutes on several party members during a raid is a huge waste of time and is really pointless. Please make this ability more useful.

    Secondly Bubble needs a huge fix. The range indicator is always messed up and the area it covers is SO small that you literally have to be exactly on top of the
    person for it to take effect. Clerics should be able to use their spells from far away, but Bubble forces you to walk up into boss-range in order to use it.
    Please change it so it can be cast from a distance and please increase the area it covers.

    These are just my suggestions, I am sure other players can find better ideas for improving Guardians in general.
    At this point, I'm willing to take any improvement to make the class more respected within the game... ||||;(;(

    P. S. I am not sure if I posted this in the appropriate Forum section, so feel free to move this thread as need be.

  • I'll reply with a bit of a rant myself all of which people have probably heard before but I do understand your despair. sadhoney


    Guardians suffer the most cons from SC than any other class, as you pointed out by comparing rebirth to tears of legel, in addition to class balance issues.

    I really wish it was more complicated than that but it isn't.


    Guardians increase survivability (with stronger heals, shield and better debuff removal) all of which is next to useless because SC boosts can cover those weaknesses and with tears being so easy to obtain (not complaining about this, much better situation then before with no free tears) the ability to instantly revive without consequence and keep & reset buffs is just too important to quick raids/KQs/expos/etc. and that's if anyone dies to begin with depending on how many are fully geared and SCed.


    Holy knights are more useful in parties because they increase damage and crit more than guards and....yeah that's it. They increase them more than guardians.

    There's a reason 99% of dungeon speed records involve 4 glads and a HK.

    I don't know if rebirth needs a 1 hour up-time but it definitely needs a longer duration then 5 minutes, most people ignore it anyways to regain their buffs, working like tears is a given. Shield can definitely be improved as well. I would add a few others like dispell pillar CD reduction and working on all debuffs, include the def reduction debuff from bash to all levels (but possibly keep high level upgrades as HK only) or put it on extinguish, make protect both classes...

    Guards and HKs should be the "one class" prestige instead of crusaders imo...


    Unfortunately while these may improve guardian's QOL they will not make guardians useful enough to parties to solve your issues, they could make an expo dungeon which causes debuffs that can only be removed by dispell pillar but it'll either be negligible effects or people would complain about the need for guardians when none are available. mehhoney



    TL;DR In conclusion guardians need some valuable niche(s) aside from healing and shielding.


    Oh and this is probably fine here or in "suggestions" or in one of the other recent guardian threads, either or.

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    The post was edited 1 time, last by The Jumping Lord ().

  • It started with the 110 skill for glads where they get more damage with less health/introduction of tear of legel which is bascially rebirth but better, dented by templar getting a better bubble and was finalized by gamigo caving into all the whiny hks on forums who refused to want to heal despite playing the healing class and gave them the bash upgrade that stacks 5x to drop defense.

    That's why guardians are useless now. Which is a shame, all the time and money into gearing and there's 0 profit back. There's 0 point in capping. Like.....whatever lmao.


    In conclusion guardians need some valuable niche(s) aside from healing and shielding

    No. Guardian prestige is all about healing and shielding. That is their strength. What needs to happen, if anything, is content being released where people need healing, like legit healing that having the HK come in and bash/cross would work against them. But at this point this probably won't happen.



    Tbh it's easier to just cut your losses and move on or deal with only MAYBE being wanted at some content.

  • my ideas ~


    - make heal add a defence buff to players that stacks up to x5 times (like bash's defence debuff)

    - add an SP recovery over time to rejuvenate

    - allow bubble to be cast at a 15m distance on a target either by aiming, or targeting a friendly character

    - rebirth increase duration, and have skill restore HP upon reaching 0% (example) target hits 0% hp, instead of dying, it will recover 20/25/40/50% of their max HP and rebirth will be removed, this would allow for continuous fighting, and no scrolls/potions would be lost (also no idle time) making it on par with tears if not better in general


    just some ideas i had, it would keep guardians supportive, but would add enough to them to make them more desirable than they are right now (outside of pvp)

  • THIS.

  • I've said this once, and I'll say this again.

    GUARDIAN'S ARE MORE PREFERRED FOR PVP.
    HOLYKNIGHT'S ARE MORE PREFERRED FOR PVE.

    If you didn't know this before choosing your Prestige, then you don't deserve to complain about it in the Forums.

    I've already gone in-depth in another forum post as to why they are for those aspects of the game. Clearly you didn't read previous forum posts before making yet *another* Guardian complaint thread.

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  • As Rei said, Guardians have been more preferred for PVP and Holy Knight for PVE.


    You should have done your research before choosing, it is a hard decision and should not have been something you... guessed at? At least not NOW, the classes have been out for a long time, even the newest changes have been in game for awhile and there are plenty of people to ask questions of and figure things out.


    And your rational for wanting change is purely self-driven at that point. There are plenty of classes that DO NOT GET INVITED to raids, or if they do its in limited numbers. At cap unless you are a glad, a godly Templar/reaper, and some dungeons use 1-2 mages or the one or two HK they take, then its hard to get in. Try being an archer, who have in the history of all fiesta dungeons, pretty much never been wanted, as the one thing they can do better than anyone else, gather mobs, can still be done by pretty much every other class, archers just do it more effectively. Or try being a knight when all guilds/raids seem to want SPEED runs, which make sense, maximize their dmg output with glads to kill everything quicker allows MORE runs during a session of farming which in turn usually means MORE loot.


    It completely 100% makes sense that the class that does the most damage the glad wants a healer whose heals do not heal AS much to keep them low so their damage is high.


    This is why guardians are used in PVP and in world boss raids. <- look Guardians are used at world boss raids.


    You seem to have regretted going Guardian. There is an SC item that allows you to change your class. Or you could level and alt to be a Holy Knight. This is not to say I don't disagree that bubble needs to be fixed (it does) or that their auto revive skill is pretty useless and should work/function better, but please make the distinction between blaming people for you choosing the class, and what is needed to just improve the class.






    Also, on a side note, all Holy Knights did not whine to get a debuff put on Bash, It is a useful skill and helps me solo as HK a lot better than I did before, so I am happy for that, but I honestly (in the recent threads before the "rebalance") I do not think anyone mentioned such a thing, they just asked for CLERICS in general to be able to solo better, and clearly Guardians were not adjusted enough and left behind, but people should stop blaming that on Holy Knights, and instead work to bring forth their cases as to what Guardians NEED to be better without trying to nerfing Holy Knights. Raise Guardians UP instead of tearing DOWN Holy Knights.

  • GUARDIAN'S ARE MORE PREFERRED FOR PVP.
    HOLYKNIGHT'S ARE MORE PREFERRED FOR PVE.

    Sure NOW they are. But...how do you expect guardians to get gear if they aren't wanted to farm? As a guard (as with most classes) to be good in pvp you need to have gear that will enable you to survive...like it won't matter how much you can heal if you die in a couple shots lol. Plus what is the point in hammering and enhancing gear if you most likely won't make the profit back?Guard gear, if it moves, moves very slowly.

  • Sure NOW they are. But...how do you expect guardians to get gear if they aren't wanted to farm? As a guard (as with most classes) to be good in pvp you need to have gear that will enable you to survive...like it won't matter how much you can heal if you die in a couple shots lol. Plus what is the point in hammering and enhancing gear if you most likely won't make the profit back?Guard gear, if it moves, moves very slowly.

    Make a HolyKnight to farm gear for your Guardian. :'D
    Or TBH make a Gladiator. probably the best option.

    Guardian gear is SO CHEAP that it really doesn't require you to farm much AT ALL.

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  • Guardian gear is SO CHEAP that it really doesn't require you to farm much AT ALL.

    To capitalize on this point I farm ToG consistently (more consistently than most could) and I sell guard gears at 50g apiece--I've had 3 pieces in my vend for the last 13 days and only 1 sold. I see others sell for 50-75g as well so this is a consistent price. The underlying issue is the overall viability of the class.
    If you buy cheap expect to sell cheap in the future. If you paid a lot for gear, expect your return to reflect a minimum of that. <~~this is proportionate to some degree, just different based on the viability/popularity of the class--that's the main point. Fix viability-->more popularity-->more return.


    I'd assume a guardian going a PVP route would be ready for this kind of thing such as the lack of return and hammer expenditures with such a Heretic idea to PVP on a support class of all options. Always pretty cool to see though. Always liked seeing people going off the beaten path like that.

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  • It's an MMORPG and like every MMORPG ever created, some classes thrive in PvP, some classes thrive in PvE, and some thrive in both. If you don't like how guardians do in PvE, then swap to an HK. There's barely a difference in playing the 2 when it comes to PvE content.

  • It's an MMORPG and like every MMORPG ever created, some classes thrive in PvP, some classes thrive in PvE, and some thrive in both. If you don't like how guardians do in PvE, then swap to an HK. There's barely a difference in playing the 2 when it comes to PvE content.


    Guardian's don't need to spam bash every 2.2 seconds though to apply that PHAT 10 second defense debuff. ;c

    Current Guild Master of OneWingedAngels Guild.
    Current Raid Leader of the Alliance.
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  • Guardian's don't need to spam bash every 2.2 seconds though to apply that PHAT 10 second defense debuff. ;c

    True. God forbid you have to do something besides press the heal button.

  • The statement he should have figured it out before, that guardians are more pvp oriented, is kinda lame. It should not be the case that you feel kinda useless, no matter which class u play.

    Jour 1


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    Celui qui s'efface, quand tu me replaces, quand tu me retiens,

    C'est celui qui revient."


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  • Make a HolyKnight to farm gear for your Guardian. :'D
    Or TBH make a Gladiator. probably the best option.

    Guardian gear is SO CHEAP that it really doesn't require you to farm much AT ALL.

    Well no sh- lol. But I'm pretty sure guardians actually wanna participate in content ON their guardian.

  • They can. SK raids like guardians, plus some people will take a guardian with them into dungeons like CoC/DQ they just need to find those people, but guardians have become the pvp class of the two clerics.


    There are a lot of classes that dont get to participate in cap stuff, not just guardians, hopefully if there ever is a cap raise some of these roles will be flipped. Maybe archers, trickser, guardians and knights would end up being more useful then.


    In different level areas of the game, different classes reign supreme. Farming tower cards/gears? Archers are actually really good as you can kill everything at a much lower level than the other classes.


    Want to run CC fast? Well thats is a mage, same with LN and DT. lvl 115 emp slime kq? knights and glads both welcome + any cleric.


    lvl 115-120 for ddf runs. Glads, knights, both mages, both clerics, both tricks, templars, even archers kind all have a role they can fulfill.


    It fluctuates.